Curve spin

[JJsqueeze]

IME, this is the spin and axis orientation on most curve balls thrown even at the highest levels (see Pauly video) and the pitch has good break on it (not just a slight "drift" as has been suggested). Pure sidespin (9-3) on a curveball is mostly a myth.

Myth busted- a member here did send me a video via message that is pretty much perfect 9-3 with 4 seams spinning to the wind. It was from a K position so maybe a full pitch tilts a little bit and is more Crize spin because of the centrifugal force on the wrist at release, but it was pretty convincing.

 

[Rocketech1]

Myth busted- a member here did send me a video via message that is pretty much perfect 9-3 with 4 seams spinning to the wind. It was from a K position so maybe a full pitch tilts a little bit and is more Crize spin because of the centrifugal force on the wrist at release, but it was pretty convincing.

I still would like to see it from a full windmill and check to see if you can maintain maximum velocity and still get 9-3 spin that is 25rps? BTW, I said "mostly" a myth because I have not seen any video at full pitch. Would love to be wrong...

 

[JJsqueeze]

What a coincidence. See clip below just shot it during Sarah's warm up pregame last Saturday. Hopefully, you can see enough of the hand/finger release action and spin axis. Her curve has some rise lift to it.....remember that all balls are pulled down by gravity so in order to have a "flat" curve you actually will need some rise action on it......I think I have seen it referred to as "crise" spin. Hope this helps unmuddy some waters.

[video]https://youtu.be/2k45MChjkPA[/video]

This is really frustrating, I know the original footage from that youtube clip is probably as crisp as can be, I know that the clip of my DD looks great on my iphone. But Youtube does some weird conversions that lose clarity so while I can get a sense of the spin I can't go frame by frame and really see what is going on. I wonder if there is another way to get the footage with it's original formatting intact.

 

[BoardMember]

Really guys/gals. The bottom line is there is more than one way to throw a curveball. And in fact, there is more than two ways to throw a curveball. Let's not digress into a pissing match about how perfect any spin is.

The idea of the corkscrew curve, whether it moves more or less then the palm up or drop curve, is that it's easier to teach AND throw than a palm up curve, and usually (not always) results in a higher velocity pitch based on the difference in mechanics that propel the ball.

And Riseball, the reference to "corkscrew" comes from the twisting delivery that doesn't achieve TRUE bullet spin. Think of it this way.....As your hand is moving forward through space, and twisting the ball, the visual of a corkscrew is one way to describe the feel/look of the delivery.

Every palm up curve I've ever seen results in an almost illegal sidearm off speed "slurve" as it were, with the elbow bent almost 90 degrees through delivery.

It's not to say a "legal" AND PURE 9-12 delivery doesn't exist, I've just never seen one.

Even the clip squeeze posted of the "palm up curve" was more of an undercut riseball then a curveball. It had almost pure backspin if you watch it full screen.

Carry on the good fight people.

 

[Ken B]

 

[riseball]

IME a true 9-3 spin is an anomaly, usually it is somewhere within 1 hour +/-. To me as long as it moves and can be thrown consistently it is a good pitch. For that matter movement through 2 planes versus 1 is not a bad thing.

 

[BoardMember]

LOL........Yet ANOTHER instructor who made up some stuff and has NO IDEA how she ACTUALLY throws here curveball.........Take a look at here ACTUAL HAND ACTION to throw this pitch........CORKSCREW!

 

[JJsqueeze]

I know that all my questions are based on trying to just understand the various spins at as deep a level I can so I don't go down any rabbit holes training DD, I am not trying to one up anyone.

One of the reasons I am so interested is that curve/rise relationship and seam orientation. when DD tries a curve she actually gets a better rise spin than when she tries a rise but the seam orientation is all off. I feel like if I can get the right info I can help her make grip adjustments so she gets 4 seams to the wind instead of that funky seam orientation she has now, then if 4 seams are moving for maximum efficiency then I don't care where it is on that rise/curve spectrum, it's a good pitch and we can just work on tilting the axis. Right now we are trying to get a axis and seams right and it's a convoluted mess of trial and error.

 

[Ken B]

I'll never forget this classic response from Rick when I posted that video a couple years ago:

Holy Cow......I couldn't watch the whole video. Just about everything shown in the first 1.5 minutes was wrong. Someone tell me....did it get any better.

This was the original thread: http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/16761-creating-spin.html

 

[Ken B]

While warming up a pitcher at a tryout, I started goofing around with spins. Not really having anything in mind, I threw something that resulted in a flat 9-3 spin. I tried it a few more times with the same result. Thinking about it, I realized it was the corkscrew curve. Totally unexpected and seemed to defy common sense. Hoping to try it full speed if I can find a catcher...