Cabrera Launch Position

[Doug Romrell]

Sorry not Cabrera but, Pujols:

Sorry, but I think the angle this clip was taken makes the path of the pitch (and thus the swing) steeper than it actually is/was. Can someone attempt to straighten it out a bit so there's a less sharp upward swing (a bit less downward pitch)???

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Just so we are clear, I am in no way saying full extension before contact, what had been suggested to me is that you want to attempt to hit the ball as long as possible on the same plane of the pitched ball. Maybe my definition of extension is not the same as yours but when I look at clips of say Cabreras, his hands are closer to his body before POC but when he hits the ball and right after he sure looks as though he has some extension. Maybe it is the degree of extension that we disagree?

I believe what you are suggesting is that the 'act' of extending fires/releases the wrists ... does that sound correct?

 

[FP26]

Sorry, but I think the angle this clip was taken makes the path of the pitch (and thus the swing) steeper than it actually is/was. Can someone attempt to straighten it out a bit so there's a less sharp upward swing (a bit less downward pitch)???

Based on the uniform (and the fact that he is not wearing a helmet), I am guessing that this is from a homerun derby. Based on that I think you are correct, it is a "more downward pitch" and a "steeper swing". It may also be possible that King Albert adjusted his swing mechanics a bit in order to generate more loft for the event. Just a guess... (Appears as though he is intentionally matching the path of the ball with the path of the bat.)

Added - I don't want to put words in RDBass's mouth, but I believe the point of the gif is to show the angle of the full extension and the fact that it is perpendicular to the spine. If Albert did not have the backwards lean, the bat and his extension would still have the perpendicular appearance.

 

[tom.guerry]

extension is related to the "law of the flail". contact needs to be made before deceleration to limit timing error. this has to do with the hinge angle (bat lining up with lead forearm)/timing

Imperatives

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Tom, good to see you posting again.

Over at BBD Bluedog referenced you as someone that advocated "arm action is king".

After all this time and all the theories, the thing that always stuck with me was Tom's "arm action is king"....Everyone pretty much gave Tom a hard time about this....But, I picked up on it and have been experimenting with it ever since....I seriously believe this is what separates the greatest of the MLB hitters from the rest....I have always sensed that Tom was closer than anyone else on what happens in the great swings....I almost started a new thread about his....But, with so many posters arguing and being crude to each other, I decided to let it go....I will say this, though....What the front-side does and when it does it is a huge contributor to a great swing......And, the front arm is a big part of a great sequence....

Can I get you to expand on the concept of "arm action is king"?

 

[tom.guerry]

Old arm acton is king description;

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

I was/am a proponent of teaching throwing and hitting together, but as discovered/detailed by Teacherman, external rotation of back arm has to be eliminated to prevent elbow pivot instead of hand pivot in swing, so the similarity in starting the motions stops at this fairly early point. His 2 engine/synch/rear leg SNF/etc. is by far the best description of the HLBB swing.

Teacherman: "The swing has to be body and hands (forearms rotating) ONLY.....with no arm action."

 

[Howe]

Old arm acton is king description;

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

I was/am a proponent of teaching throwing and hitting together, but as discovered/detailed by Teacherman, external rotation of back arm has to be eliminated to prevent elbow pivot instead of hand pivot in swing, so the similarity in starting the motions stops at this fairly early point. His 2 engine/synch/rear leg SNF/etc. is by far the best description of the HLBB swing.

Teacherman: "The swing has to be body and hands (forearms rotating) ONLY.....with no arm action."

Throwing is an overhand motion and hitting is an underhand motion. Other than that, they are the exact same thing ... LOL Why don't you reconcile the shoulder orientation in each Tom. While you're at it, you may be able to tell me why scap pinch in the overhand throw is more realistic than in the underhand swing.

Wanna hint Tom? Scap clamp/pinch bleeds the rear shoulder! Other than that, he has it nailed . What did you say about "elbow pivot"???

 

[Eric F]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with Howe (right now), but I think this in another example where a sarcasm font would be REALLY FREAKIN' USEFUL. Someone needs to get on that.

 

[Howe]

Fixed that for ya Eric.

Tom knew the danger:

Take these ideas with caution,however,because as Nyman says,cause and effect can be tricky,and the wrong ideas could lead to "danger and destruction".

But not having ever worked with any real hitters, he plowed on and encouraged others on his theory:

I also don't see why the general principles of Nyman's throwing theory(see first link above) are not just as applicable to acquisition of hitting skills.Ecological theory,upward and downward causation,backward chaining,primacy of arm action should apply to both without a big difference even though hitting is reactive as opposed to throwing being more creative.

I don't know why scapula loading wouldn't be just as important in hitting.

The Scap loading process in the overhand throw vs the underhand swing are two totally different animals, yet they ran with it, shoehorned it and sold it as reality. As if the overhand throw and the swing were one in the same? And they are still at it.

This is reality Tom: Underhand vs. Overhand

The swinger bottom left. Pitcher top right. See the "Danger and Destruction"?

 

[rdbass]

Thanks to RHC for the gif: