Launch position characteristics

[softballphreak]

Looks like a cast of the barrel. Why does the barrel go away from the head and then blur? That’s a cast. And it moves first. You see those quite a bit on inside pitches. Check out Ted casting the barrel. If the hands aren’t active by then you won’t hit elite pitching. No chance.

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Will too.

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Ted again.

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Note all inside pitches just like Bustos. If that doesn’t scream hands first well I just don’t know what to say.

I’m obviously not seeing like you’re seeing. I see the hands move after the hips and torso clear. The hands and arms being faster than the torso would make him have to swing around his body.

 

[Rolling Hard]

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I went back and found a picture of Bustos. This what I call turning the barrel. Also hands last. It does happen that the barrel is pulled but that’s not what initiated the swing.
I have a drill I call the check swing drill where everything is done except the hands. They hit to the fence using that drill.
Notice the blur of her bat. If that was a pull there would be no blur; it is instead a turning of the barrel.

Bustos was not very good. She could never hit off todays pitchers. She is border line arm baring. Just kidding. It is not perfect but who cares. Notice how quiet her eyes/head are during her swing. BOOM

 

[Work=wins]

I’m obviously not seeing like you’re seeing. I see the hands move after the hips and torso clear. The hands and arms being faster than the torso would make him have to swing around his body.

Forgot about this.. what you’re describing is the counter rotation phase which isn’t swinging at all it’s loading.

When the torso goes first is when you swing ‘around your body’ . That means the swing is late and you’re dragging the bat to contact around your body instead of creating the arc w your hands/arms and catapulting the bat off of the rotation.




The hands going before rotation. After counter rotation. Here’s a tutorial on the physics of it. It’s the same just different arcs and hand articulations. But it’s the same kinematics.

 

[softballphreak]

I like the baseball swing. Hands obviously last. Great chance to check swing if necessary. Not so much with golfer. But not necessary to check swing in golf I guess.

 

[softballphreak]

If the baseball batter were to swing first without firing the hips where would the hands go? Around the body because the torso wouldn’t be able to clear. Same thing happens if the hands are too soon. Hips lead slightly as hands fire. Just like the batter example.

 

[Cannonball]

I've mentioned this before but I coach, "hands first - hands last." Again, Bballscout used to talk about tip and rip. Englishbey talked about pulling the bow back. I combined those in the same action and taught a subtle pulling back with tipping. The hands get a running start and the back hip action follows the tip.

 

[Cornbread]

The body reacts to what the hands want to do at the moment of go. Not the other way around. It doesn’t look that way on video. I used to think hips/torso first then hands. Took some swings thinking hands first. It changed my mind. Had more burst and suddenness. The hands launch first and the body reacts. The body reacts very quickly. Which is why some think it’s hands last. JMO

 

[softballphreak]

I think we’re doing the same thing with different thought process. I explain it as hip leads when instructing, primarily to avoid a gate swing. Or worse, not as much hip and back foot lockout. Not talking hip spin, just to be clear. Turn the hands/barrel is probably as close to hands first as I get. I teach that the first reaction is hips/torso fire and (not as) instantly the hands turn (not pull).
From a check swing position the stretch I’m looking for is easy to feel; although exaggerated because it’s a drill. Not certain but I believe straightleg’s halfway home drill is similar.

 

[Work=wins]

If the baseball batter were to swing first without firing the hips where would the hands go? Around the body because the torso wouldn’t be able to clear. Same thing happens if the hands are too soon. Hips lead slightly as hands fire. Just like the batter example.

This doesn’t make sense. If the hands go first they can go wherever they want without any obstacle. If the body turns first while the hands stay behind you have no choice but to follow the rotation around the body. I’m not saying that doesn’t work up to a certain level. But not at the higher levels. The pros don’t do that. At least the good ones don’t.

The videos I posted here have stated all of this. Baseball and golf. You’re describing the load. Which is sequencing w a proper weight shift. Nothing has been launched until the hands come forward. We don’t rotate to swing. We swing to rotate.

 

[softballphreak]

I can see what I’m trying to express in just about every model you’ve shown; except golf.
My last thought on this is if the hands move first and they’re faster than the torso they will be impeded somewhat by the torso. At best they will move at the same time, a gate swing.
The thought may be hands first but the hands don’t move first.