Best peel drop, but her grip is off a hair. Her thumb should be between the two seams and not over the seam.
Backswing vs. no backswing
- Thread starter Boomers2012
- Start date
Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch
Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.
halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
- 2,637
- 0
When the backswing is inconsistent, it causes TIMING ISSUES in the rest of the arm circle. That is an accuracy and speed killer. Keeping the backswing consistent, from one pitch to the next, will usually fix the problem. Unfortunately, that is EXACTLY what every batter and their hitting instructor rely and depend on happening. Pitching consistently, no problem at all hitting a predictable pitch. Just like batting practice off the machine, no problem putting 17 for 20 against the wall. Same thing goes for pitchers that are consistant and predictable, batters will hit them the same.
However, the backswing is the perfect wind up to mix in with the softball submarine wind up and totally take away the batters timing and confidence.
To ONLY use the backswing, can make make for a rough outing. To use both makes for alot of strike outs and alot of fun.
However, the backswing is the perfect wind up to mix in with the softball submarine wind up and totally take away the batters timing and confidence.
To ONLY use the backswing, can make make for a rough outing. To use both makes for alot of strike outs and alot of fun.
So what are you trying to say about the back arm swing? It is good only if it is the same every pitch, but it isn't good because to many things can vary, like too much or not enough back arm swing. Can't you say the man's other way, of coming out of the glove, around 9 O'clock is better, because there is less arm movement, and it is a simpler way to control the arm and make the delivery and ball control more consistent? The way to correct/fix the timing issues is to keep the back arm swing consistent you say but you don't say how to keep the back arm swing consistent. Then you say if a pitcher uses only the back arm swing without the submarine windup mixed in they will be in for a rough outing.
I have never seen a college pitcher mix wind ups up. Show me an elite pitcher that changes from a back arm swing, to a submarine wind up. Show me a HS girl that does it. Show me a TB pitcher that does this. Are you forgetting muscle memory?
I think more videos of Thomas and the Renfroe sisters would be the best thing for this site. JMHO. WCWS isn't for fun is it?
I have never seen a college pitcher mix wind ups up. Show me an elite pitcher that changes from a back arm swing, to a submarine wind up. Show me a HS girl that does it. Show me a TB pitcher that does this. Are you forgetting muscle memory?
I think more videos of Thomas and the Renfroe sisters would be the best thing for this site. JMHO. WCWS isn't for fun is it?
I did not expect there to be a backlash, when I started a few of my young pitchers w/o a back swing, this season. One is a beginner 11 yo. A team mom verbally confronted her as to what she was doing and why she was starting her pitch with the shoulders square and taking a breath. ?? The little girl was confused, but thank goodness her catcher spoke up and said "She is doing what her pitching instructor told her."
Then, an 8 yo was pitching her first inning ever and the coach came out and told her that she HAS to have a wind up.
The 3rd little girl has pitched for me for a solid year. She pitches better w/o a back swing. She asked me if she could add a wind up, because her LL coach wants it. "OK."
Thank goodness, a hard throwing 11 yo, tells me that she likes her new motion and that she feels like she could pitch all day. She legitimately hit 50 mph, yesterday. The next pitch was 48 and then, she shot something over my head and into the fence.
Then, an 8 yo was pitching her first inning ever and the coach came out and told her that she HAS to have a wind up.
The 3rd little girl has pitched for me for a solid year. She pitches better w/o a back swing. She asked me if she could add a wind up, because her LL coach wants it. "OK."
Thank goodness, a hard throwing 11 yo, tells me that she likes her new motion and that she feels like she could pitch all day. She legitimately hit 50 mph, yesterday. The next pitch was 48 and then, she shot something over my head and into the fence.
- May 17, 2012
- 2,805
- 113
My DD was a double arm swinger who recently switched to a single arm swing back with a bend at the waist (see Amanda Scarborough).
The reason she switched was because after she rocked back she would actually come to a stop when she rocked forward (as she was waiting on her arms to go up). She was losing all of her momentum from rocking back. You should look like a sprinter coming out of the starting blocks.
I don't know of any sprinters that get set and then stand up when the gun goes off. You should explode off of the mound.
Anyways it solved this problem, and she likes it. The latter part is what really counts.
She didn't lose any speed, she converted in one pitching lesson.
The reason she switched was because after she rocked back she would actually come to a stop when she rocked forward (as she was waiting on her arms to go up). She was losing all of her momentum from rocking back. You should look like a sprinter coming out of the starting blocks.
I don't know of any sprinters that get set and then stand up when the gun goes off. You should explode off of the mound.
Anyways it solved this problem, and she likes it. The latter part is what really counts.
She didn't lose any speed, she converted in one pitching lesson.
Good point. I'd like to see one successful pitcher who does what Hal preaches ie the different windups.
- May 17, 2012
- 2,805
- 113
My DD does this. She has three different windups that she can use during a game. I think last game I only saw her do it to one batter.
It was a nasty at bat where the batter kept fouling the ball off repeatedly. My DD was mixing off speed and fastballs and finally went with a different windup.
She still fouled it off, but hey, at least she was thinking out there.
It made me smile.
halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
- 2,637
- 0
"I have never seen a college pitcher mix wind ups up. Show me an elite pitcher that changes from a back arm swing, to a submarine wind up. Show me a HS girl that does it. Show me a TB pitcher that does this. Are you forgetting muscle memory?"
They need to let you out more often. Tell ya what, I'll give you a name from the International Men's game you so like to speak of. ADAM FOLKARD. Argueably the best and fastest pitcher on the planet.
His bread and butter is straight out of the glove. His other wind up, SLINGSHOT and he uses both in a game.
As I said, they need to let you out more so can go watch games other than college on TV.
They need to let you out more often. Tell ya what, I'll give you a name from the International Men's game you so like to speak of. ADAM FOLKARD. Argueably the best and fastest pitcher on the planet.
His bread and butter is straight out of the glove. His other wind up, SLINGSHOT and he uses both in a game.
As I said, they need to let you out more so can go watch games other than college on TV.
halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
- 2,637
- 0
Doug, I will try and condense what I saiod to its shortest amout.
If I had my way, every young pitcher woul;d use the straight out of the glove windup. However, if a student already has experience using the backswing, a good instructor with experience WILL not TEAR THAT DOWN AND DESTROY WHATEVER CONFIDENCE the student has built up using it tro that point. As I have said, you build on what they already have.
Having said that again, the perfect tactic to add to a pitcher with a backswing is the softball submarine wind up. They pick up on it IN A HEARTBEAT because it is embedded into the backswing, its part of it.
I might also mention another name you might be familiar with, DOUG NOBLE. You do realize that the slingshot wind up you said you started pitching with is another form of a backswing wind up right? When you switched over from that to straught out of the glove, why didnt you use both? You coould have ya know! You could have been more successful then Folkard, who knows> I think you held yourself back by only using one.
If I had my way, every young pitcher woul;d use the straight out of the glove windup. However, if a student already has experience using the backswing, a good instructor with experience WILL not TEAR THAT DOWN AND DESTROY WHATEVER CONFIDENCE the student has built up using it tro that point. As I have said, you build on what they already have.
Having said that again, the perfect tactic to add to a pitcher with a backswing is the softball submarine wind up. They pick up on it IN A HEARTBEAT because it is embedded into the backswing, its part of it.
I might also mention another name you might be familiar with, DOUG NOBLE. You do realize that the slingshot wind up you said you started pitching with is another form of a backswing wind up right? When you switched over from that to straught out of the glove, why didnt you use both? You coould have ya know! You could have been more successful then Folkard, who knows> I think you held yourself back by only using one.
Last edited:
- Mar 28, 2013
- 769
- 18
Dont know If Im doing the right thing here but after watching my 13 year old struggle last weekend with north and south still in the zone but getting behind alittle to low and having to come up and throwing two many belt high pitches for hits. after being pretty dominant for the last three years Im going to try to have her eliminate the big backswing.She is pretty tall for her age 5,9 and grew another 1.5 inches last month so I know that has something to do with it but I cant help but think the less overall motion she has the more consistant her mechanics will stay,I know she is not done growing.She throws very hard for her age with tons of leg drive so I dont think needs to the big back swing for the drive.This is the type of stuff Id rather be doing during winter but I think its worth a shot.
Thanks for the great opinions on this thread.
Thanks for the great opinions on this thread.
