"Back Door" vs. "Front Door" definitions?

[JAD]

Backdoor Curve: a curveball that appears to be a ball until it breaks over the plate for a strike.

 

[drc9805]

Ok, my follow-up question is that I recently talked with a TB head coach that said college coaches are looking for pitchers to throw a "backdoor screwball". Is this your experience and is this pitch even possible?

They just need a lefty pitcher that can throw a backdoor curve...lol! I would be leery of those coaches though.

 

[JJsqueeze]

Ok, my follow-up question is that I recently talked with a TB head coach that said college coaches are looking for pitchers to throw a "backdoor screwball". Is this your experience and is this pitch even possible?

I would not be able to resist asking him for the name a single pitcher that threw a backdoor screwball.

 

[drc9805]

Just goes to show most people believe that pitch is really breaking and not just ever so slightly if any but a lot!

 

[Rick Pauly]

Ok, my follow-up question is that I recently talked with a TB head coach that said college coaches are looking for pitchers to throw a "backdoor screwball". Is this your experience and is this pitch even possible?

Well, I've seen a few college pitchers throw this but I would not classify them as high level pitchers. I cannot imagine a college coach saying they are looking for that pitcher....that pitch is so far down the food chain.

 

[Rocketech1]

Thanks everyone. It's not easy being a pitcher (or a pitcher's dad) when you have to navigate the minefield of well-intentioned but just plain bad advice coming from head coaches.

Here's another example I have heard "I prefer that she throws a high fastball instead of her riseball because if she misses with the riseball, it will be hit hard". So, what do you tell your DD in this situation? Whenever he calls for a high, fastball should she throw the riseball and hope he doesn't know the difference? Does she never throw her riseball in games, but how does she get better at the riseball if she never throws it to live batters. Does your DD have a heart-to-heart with the HC to go over her pitches and best pitch strategy without offending him/her?

 

[JAD]

Well, I've seen a few college pitchers throw this but I would not classify them as high level pitchers. I cannot imagine a college coach saying they are looking for that pitcher....that pitch is so far down the food chain.

Why is a backdoor curve ball so much more popular than a backdoor screwball?

 

[Rocketech1]

Why is a backdoor curve ball so much more popular than a backdoor screwball?

I hope Rick answers but IME it is a lot easier to get break/movement on a curve ball than it is for a screwball which relies more on the angle of the pitch and location than it does actual break to be effective. For example, a RHP when facing a RHH would normally set-up on the left side of the pitching plate (or stride to the left of the powerline) and throw across the powerline to the inside part of the plate. To throw a back-door screwball, the pitcher is likely set-up on the left side of the pitching plate and has to throw the pitch away from the outside corner of the plate and hope it breaks several ball widths back into the outside strike zone. I will attempt this with my DD but I have a feeling she will end up with a straight pitch with little movement to the outside corner? She might be better off just throwing her drop ball to the outside corner instead of the backdoor screwball?

It also might have a lot to do with the throwing arm. For a RHP, throwing a backdoor curve, the arm is on the outside of the body (compared to where the LHH is set-up in the box) so you get a better angle to throw outside and let it break into the plate. For a RHP to throw a backdoor screwball, her arm is on the inside (compared to where a RHH is set-up in the box) and now has to throw more outside for the pitch to appear to be a ball but then attempt to break in to the outside corner of the plate. I just don't see how many pitchers would be able to generate this much break to be an effective pitch?

 

[Rick Pauly]

Thanks everyone. It's not easy being a pitcher (or a pitcher's dad) when you have to navigate the minefield of well-intentioned but just plain bad advice coming from head coaches.

Here's another example I have heard "I prefer that she throws a high fastball instead of her riseball because if she misses with the riseball, it will be hit hard". So, what do you tell your DD in this situation? Whenever he calls for a high, fastball should she throw the riseball and hope he doesn't know the difference? Does she never throw her riseball in games, but how does she get better at the riseball if she never throws it to live batters. Does your DD have a heart-to-heart with the HC to go over her pitches and best pitch strategy without offending him/her?

RT
I have also heard this or similar statements relative to the riseball......I really have to take 10 deep breaths before answering someone who says this. I am guessing these people have never seen how devastating a good riseball is.......it isn't called "The Scholarship Pitch" for nothing.

Well guess what....if your dropball gets up a little it gets hit hard also. Hitters are getting better every year (especially since we stopped teaching them to chop down at the ball..... They can take any pitch out of the park.
If your riseball flattens out to early it is highly likely it will get hit hard......if your dropball release angle is poor it is going to get hit hard......screwball, curveball, change up, etc., etc. same thing.

 

[Rick Pauly]

I hope Rick answers but IME it is a lot easier to get break/movement on a curve ball than it is for a screwball which relies more on the angle of the pitch and location than it does actual break to be effective. For example, a RHP when facing a RHH would normally set-up on the left side of the pitching plate (or stride to the left of the powerline) and throw across the powerline to the inside part of the plate. To throw a back-door screwball, the pitcher is likely set-up on the left side of the pitching plate and has to throw the pitch away from the outside corner of the plate and hope it breaks several ball widths back into the outside strike zone. I will attempt this with my DD but I have a feeling she will end up with a straight pitch with little movement to the outside corner? She might be better off just throwing her drop ball to the outside corner instead of the backdoor screwball?

It also might have a lot to do with the throwing arm. For a RHP, throwing a backdoor curve, the arm is on the outside of the body (compared to where the LHH is set-up in the box) so you get a better angle to throw outside and let it break into the plate. For a RHP to throw a backdoor screwball, her arm is on the inside (compared to where a RHH is set-up in the box) and now has to throw more outside for the pitch to appear to be a ball but then attempt to break in to the outside corner of the plate. I just don't see how many pitchers would be able to generate this much break to be an effective pitch?

RT
In order to throw a backdoor screwball the pitcher needs to land barely within the chalk lane and then perform some sort of ungodly disconnection "butt out" posture to get enough release angle to actually give the appearance of movement.......not impossible to do, but difficult to do and fraught with mechanical issues that may negatively affect all the other pitches.