He's making her slap her thigh.

Interesting take on the leg slap. Im glad my DD never used and was never trained to do it. Why would you want to self inflict pain on yourself? I knew a high school girl that did it and had huge bruises after each game. This could potentially ruin your endurance and will to practice. I read somewehere that Hillhouse is totally against it. If I recall correctly, I think he said the problems it caused where: 1. Pain and self injury. 2. Driving the glove into the hips can make the pitcher close too early. 3. This can be a timing mechanism for the hitter. I thinks someone mentioned earlier in the thread that players don't hit themselves on the overhand throw which is true. Why do it when you pitch.

Softball scholar said:

Interesting take on the leg slap. Im glad my DD never used and was never trained to do it. Why would you want to self inflict pain on yourself? I knew a high school girl that did it and had huge bruises after each game. This could potentially ruin your endurance and will to practice. I read somewehere that Hillhouse is totally against it. If I recall correctly, I think he said the problems it caused where: 1. Pain and self injury. 2. Driving the glove into the hips can make the pitcher close too early. 3. This can be a timing mechanism for the hitter. I thinks someone mentioned earlier in the thread that players don't hit themselves on the overhand throw which is true. Why do it when you pitch.

Click to expand...

Thank you for providing three explanations supporting the prevention of a glove slap.

1. Pain and self injury. :

I personally don't see Cat wincing in pain as the glove contacts her front thigh.



There are many pitchers that have done this .... why is it they can have long careers with this trait if it is so dangerous?

You mentioned the potential to ruin a pitcher's endurance ..... that didn't seem to be the case with Cat.


2. Driving the glove into the hips can make the pitcher close too early.:

Or ..... The act of allowing the glove to contact the thigh enhances synchronization.


3. This can be a timing mechanism for the hitter. :

See earlier posts in this thread. If anything, if a hitter uses the audible sound as a timing mechanism then they will be worse off, not better off.


As for the overhand throw analogy, understand that the deceleration mechanics are not identical, as the body orientation is not identical. For example, in an overhand throw the upper torso is more square to the target at release, and for a windmill pitch the upper body is more open at release.

There have been multiple references to the overhand throw in this thread .... as if that should be the model for the windmill motion.

We covered this topic earlier. The windmill pitching motion is not the same as the overhand throw turned upside down.

FiveFrameSwing said:

BM .... some excellent points made here that has the potential to evolve.

Quick question ..... based on your description, would you agree that the FP windmill pitching motion is NOT the same as an overhand throwing motion turned upside down?

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BoardMember said:

No throwing underhand is not the same as throwing overhand upside down.........What do you think?..........ROFL!

The whipping loop created in the overhand throw with a completely different set of bio-mechanics........

The only thing they have in common is that the ball is thrown in a direction toward a target........

But then I also don't at all agree with the very first drill a beginning fastpitch student should be taught is the "California Walk-Through"........Talk about the cart before the horse..........

But hey, to each his own.............

Click to expand...

FiveFrameSwing said:

LOL BM.

Exactly .... the overhand throw is quite different.

When I see a demonstration like we see below (forearm fire) I wonder if someone took Bill's notion, of the FP windmill motion being an overhand throwing motion turned upside down, and went too far with it.

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BoardMember said:

That's actually Phil's plagiarized version of my I/R thread, but coming from someone who has no clue what it actually feels like to throw a ball underhand properly..........It's actually an "ABSTRACT" version of being loose and using I/R that his mind can see, but his body can't "construct"..........

To Bill's (or anyone's actually) notion that throwing underhand is like throwing overhand but upside down, I think it's just an easy way to convey to young people that the throwing motion, whether overhand or underhand, includes flex in the elbow, some "looseness" in the joints, and a step/stop/release synchronized action to propel the ball........And is not meant to be a literal statement........

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If there is no benefit to slapping your thigh with the glove then why encourage/allow any wasted motion? Pitching a seven inning game you are looking at 100 pitches (slaps), say 3-4 games in a weekend then your talking some where between 300 - 400 pitches (slaps) or more.

See article below.

Player

PEPPERS said:

If there is no benefit to slapping your thigh with the glove then why encourage/allow any wasted motion? Pitching a seven inning game you are looking at 100 pitches (slaps), say 3-4 games in a weekend then your talking some where between 300 - 400 pitches (slaps) or more.

See article below.

Player

Click to expand...

We covered the benefit earlier ....... more complete adduction.

The article you reference takes the position of increasing the pain so as to have the student be more aware of what the instructor wishes to prevent. Missing from this instruction is the importance of adduction.

Not really making any point other than I don't get the overhand/underhand comparison:



Any chance someone could turn this and a similar sequence from the AS video into gif's for a side-by-side comparison?

FiveFrameSwing said:

We covered the benefit earlier ....... more complete adduction.

The article you reference takes the position of increasing the pain so as to have the student be more aware of what the instructor wishes to prevent. Missing from this instruction is the importance of adduction.

Click to expand...

So in your opinion the only way to create adduction is with the glove slapping the thigh????????????

Another instructor against slapping the glove on the thigh is Cheri Kempf owner of Club K.

About Cheri Kempf

clubk.com - Cheri Kempf – Owner/Instructor

PEPPERS said:

So in your opinion the only way to create adduction is with the glove slapping the thigh????????????

Another instructor against slapping the glove on the thigh is Cheri Kempf owner of Club K.

About Cheri Kempf

clubk.com - Cheri Kempf – Owner/Instructor

Click to expand...

I don't think anyone said slapping the thigh is the only way, just that if a pitcher does it that in and of itself it is not something to be overly concerned with. no one said they teach a pitcher to slap their thigh, but if they wind up doing it as a result of teaching balance, proper glove side pull down etc. then as long as it is not causing a problem like bruising then don't worry about the whole INJURY/HITTER TIMING thing.

In working on pulling down the glove arm going into release, one of my pitching students developed a slapping of her glove on her thigh. I now OCCASIONALLY tell her that she shouldn't slap her glove down quite as hard as she does, that it should be softer. My point is that I didn't teach her to slap her glove on her thigh, but I did teach her to pull her glove arm down when we focused on "up together, down together."

PEPPERS said:

So in your opinion the only way to create adduction is with the glove slapping the thigh????????????

Another instructor against slapping the glove on the thigh is Cheri Kempf owner of Club K.

About Cheri Kempf

clubk.com - Cheri Kempf – Owner/Instructor

Click to expand...

Was FiveFrame advocating glove "slapping" as the way to create adduction?


I'm having a hard time understanding the argument here. What's the voodoo about the glove touching the thigh?