Syracuse.com Survey of Coaches

[YOCOACH]

I have to get kids in bed but I do want to post a quick reply and then think about this excellent conversation. IMHO, winning and losing don't necessarily reflect a coach doing what's in the team's best interests. Nor does a lack of hidden agendas or a showing of honor. Nor do mere words or intent. So how about this - if, because of a coach's decision making based on what's best for the team, the team and its players continue on a day by day basis to show steady improvement. I'm speaking mentally, physically, emotionally, more situational awareness, more communication and teamwork, better decision making, increased skills, a certain joy derived from softball. Am I saying this correctly?

Let me finish your thought.

So how about this - if, because of a coach's decision making based on what's best for the team, the team and its players continue on a day by day basis to show steady improvement then they should be kept on. I'm speaking mentally, physically, emotionally, more situational awareness, more communication and teamwork, better decision making, increased skills, a certain joy derived from softball then that's far better than being fired or having them quit due to any other reason....especially from rose colored glasses wearing parents that want to complain about playing time when their DD, in the eyes of almost every outsider can plainly see that she stinks bad enough to be a skunk and shouldn't even be on the field with the rest of the players that put the time and effort into improving instead of having the entitled attitude of that they deserve to be on the field either due to the class year (Seniority) or simply because they were the best player in their rec ball league for the last 10 years.

How'd I do?

 

[BT3100]

It works both ways.
DD was placed on the JV middle school team while a sub par pitcher was placed on V.
No worries on her end but the second game she was super motivated and struck out 18 out of 18 girls. With one out in the 6th the head coach who is best friends with the girl who got moved to V said to DD "Your not the only girl on this team, give them something to hit so the other girls can make a play".

As I should, I did not say a word. But there are some deeply incompetent coaches out there.. BTW our high school is one of the best in the state in Softball.
Imagine if they knew how they are treating the middle school kids.

 

[CoachJD]

During tryouts, the HS coach needs to make the hard decisions regarding who to put of the roster. What he should not do is maintain an overly large roster in effort to keep people happy. And, unless there are very large skills differentials, seniors who played varsity as juniors should be on the roster.

Once you have rosters much larger than around 12, you are setting yourself up for unhappy players. Having said, that, I do think that the coach should make strong efforts to give everybody on the roster some playing time.

Beyond that, the coach needs to read the school environment. Some schools are more competitive than others and putting winning above seniority. At other schools, the seniority is somewhat more important.

This is something I'm already thinking about, and I'm a little less than 6 months away from making any decisions. In the spring, our (JV) team had between 8-11 girls, depending on the week. That was with just FR/SO. We have an extra class this year, and we also have other girls who are interested because they've seen how much the girls on the team enjoy it. I fully expect to have more players try out than I'll have roster spots available.

If we get 20+ players, it won't be too difficult to make cuts, generally speaking. But what I hope doesn't happen is we get to a situation where we have 1 or 2 more players than we can keep. I don't want to cut 1 or 2 girls. And I don't want to have 16 people on the roster necessarily, but if 15 or 16 come out, I'm more likely to take them all (we can have up to 16 because that's how many uniforms we're going to have) than I am to cut a couple just to keep numbers down. Cutting one or two girls just seems cruel.

Maybe that's not the right move, but at the school I'm at, I'm almost certain the happy-to-be-there girls (especially the Freshmen who haven't played before) would rather be on the team and not get into many games than get cut. I could be wrong, but if the girls know playing time will be limited (unless they work hard, develop, earn a spot), I don't expect too many complaints.

 

[Westwind]

This is a really good thread. If you haven't read Kens post on page 1, go back and read it now. Great post, Ken and I have never thought about it that way but it's true.

I'm not a huge fan of school sports. DD #1 had some extremely entitled athletes and parents at her hs. The school and coaches allowed and, I think, fostered the entitlement attitude. It was one of the most disgusting things I have ever witnessed. Thankfully those particular players weren't willing to put the work into hitting so they ran track instead of playing sb. After having to spend the winter enduring them at basketball games, it was great to get that break from them come spring. Yet, the bad taste in my mouth for hs sports remains. And those coaches and parents did none of the athletes any favors with this attitude. And it certainly did not result in sports team success.

With the above in mind, consider the following and maybe it will help you make the most of a less than ideal situation.

Rosters... Roster size... Does your daughter want to play college sb? It will not be a 12 player roster of same age players. Are you and dd ready for that? While hs sb is sometimes less than ideal, maybe that is one of the things that can be learned from it.

Parent coaches- the main option in travel. Thank goodness for smart people willing to coach. Unofficial parent practice and coaching *outside of team practice and games* is usually why kids are successful athletes. BUT- are you and your dd ready for the day when you aren't coaching them? Are you ready for the day when there isn't a car ride home to have the post game pep talk? Maybe hs is a chance to work on her dealing with the ups and downs on her own. Maybe it's a good chance to take ownership of her own training, success and failure. Again, a way to take advantage of a less than ideal situation.

"The sooner you realize that this isn't all about you, the better off you will be."

Anybody know that quote?

 

[MTR]

If you don't have the desire to improve in your life you have a bigger problem than how much PT you get in High School.

I have no idea to what you are referring since there is no connection to the post you cited.

 

[Softball scholar]

While I agree with many of your points, I personally know of several school systems in my area where the AD always side with the parents that complain. A perfect example is a trustee of the township where DD's local HS resides in. His DD came in as a Freshman and made JV. Her father wasn't happy with that. He complained and his DD became a starter on V at 3rd base even though she displaced a Junior that was far superior to her skill-wise and talent-wise. I could name you numerous other examples, not just from our HS team, but others in the area.

For example, I had a player in rec ball. She decided to go for the open enrollment at another HS because the school system she was in wasn't that good scholastically. She far outclassed any player on the field as far as speed, throwing, fielding and hitting goes. This girl could get to balls no one even thought of. She could be almost in left field and make a throw on a rope and get the fastest girl out at first. She also hit mostly doubles and triples because she was so fast. Stealing bases was a given since only one catcher could throw her out when she deigned to hit a single. As a Junior, she was supplanted because a parent complained loud enough to the AD and school board that her DD was a star and needed to be on the field. This player that she replaced could have easily been a P5 player had she had her stuff together enough to let those coaches be aware that she was interested in playing ball in college. Yet the AD and school board basically forced the coach into replacing her with this new player which, as much as I hate to say it, basically sucked. She couldn't field, her arm was just average, she struck out 27 for 28 times at bat and the only time she actually made contact with the ball was on a sacrifice bunt which she was thrown out on because she had feet of clay.

I could go on but I won't. When the administration, whether it's the principals, school board, AD, whatever, fail to support anyone including teachers and coaches, It's no wonder many of them are quitting and leaving the sports world let alone the classroom. Heck, DW wants to quit teaching altogether but can't because she has her Masters and is too expensive to hire in another school system after 20+ years. She's been looking for a corporate teaching or Data Entry job but in our economically depressed area, they are far and few between.

Maybe some small town/small school politics. Story almost seems unbelievable.

 

[sleepwalker]

Messere believes the club scene is smoke and mirrors. He said parents are paying for college recommendations that colleges may discount. He said by the time those players return to their high school teams, many have bad habits and a false sense of their abilities. When they don’t play or are shuffled down a depth chart, there can be trouble.

I like this quote from the article. I don't know how many times I've seen a parent send a child to a college skills camp and have their kids return with high recommendations of where their child is compared to athletes all over the nation and how much higher their stock in college will go up if they just follow the teachings of the skills camp. These parents pay high dollars to get glowing reviews of their child's ability to play a sport at the next level. The reality is, that every kid that pays to be evaluated, will receive some kind of positive or glowing review of, where they are or where they could be, if they just put in the hard work and followed the teaching of the skills camp. If they didn't get these glowing reviews, parents wouldn't send their kids back to these college skills camps.

I also see this mentality with sports officials at the high school and college levels. Officials that attend the officiating camps provided by the various assignors will get preferential treatment over those who don't attend year in and year out. Every official that attends will get a glowing review of how well they officiate or could officiate if they work hard and apply the teachings of the assignors officiating camps. The officials have to pay for the officiating camps, on their dime, while the assignors line their pockets and give glowing reviews to all those who attend.

The end goal, in both of these scenarios, is to get as many people to return to the camps year in and year out.

In both of these scenarios, people will get a false sense of their child's or their personal abilities and when they aren't moved up the depth charts of their prospective organizations, trouble will occur.

 

[canyonjoe]

I have no idea to what you are referring since there is no connection to the post you cited.

In post 40 you asked where the incentive was for an underclassman to improve. I think most successful people look to improve
at everything they do.

 

[Softball scholar]

I like this quote from the article. I don't know how many times I've seen a parent send a child to a college skills camp and have their kids return with high recommendations of where their child is compared to athletes all over the nation and how much higher their stock in college will go up if they just follow the teachings of the skills camp. These parents pay high dollars to get glowing reviews of their child's ability to play a sport at the next level. The reality is, that every kid that pays to be evaluated, will receive some kind of positive or glowing review of, where they are or where they could be, if they just put in the hard work and followed the teaching of the skills camp. If they didn't get these glowing reviews, parents wouldn't send their kids back to these college skills camps.

I also see this mentality with sports officials at the high school and college levels. Officials that attend the officiating camps provided by the various assignors will get preferential treatment over those who don't attend year in and year out. Every official that attends will get a glowing review of how well they officiate or could officiate if they work hard and apply the teachings of the assignors officiating camps. The officials have to pay for the officiating camps, on their dime, while the assignors line their pockets and give glowing reviews to all those who attend.

The end goal, in both of these scenarios, is to get as many people to return to the camps year in and year out.

In both of these scenarios, people will get a false sense of their child's or their personal abilities and when they aren't moved up the depth charts of their prospective organizations, trouble will occur.

My DD has gone to a few college skills camps, and she has never got a formal review of her skills or comparison to kids all over the country. Maybe Ive been sending DD to the wrong camps. Come on what camp does that? This is a BS statement.
The camps give some good feedback on skills or recommendation for improvement, but yes are overrated. But she has never gone to camp and got a learned a bad habit. That would be counter productive. I will make this point, after my DD freshman high school season, she did go back to her travel team and hitting and pitching coach with some new bad habits. This statement is like saying Coack K or Coach Urban Meyer doesn't know as much as the local high school coach. Think it about it, its a silly statement.

To be honest college camps are really just fund raisers and will just marginally improve the skills of any young athlete. Most people should evaluate the cost/benefit. You would hope the coaches would at least have a high level of knowledge and their drills and critiques would be of some value. You would also think the coach would have a somewhat higher level of expertise than your standard college coach or travel coach. And yes, your stock will go up if you follow there teachings. But the problem is most kids forget what they learn at the camp, and you don't have any follow up after the camp. Again, what I see at most camps are similar to what you would get at practice, but sometimes they throw in a new drill or perspective that is helpful. On the flip side, I see a lot of college kids running the drills. Sometimes, you can tell they don't want to be there and there attitude is apathetic. Also, because you play a college sport, doesn't make you a great teacher.


To get to my point college camps go through the exercise to A) make money and B) recruit and evaluate prospects. So be real because 80% of the kids at these camps will not even be considered for recruiting.

 

[YOCOACH]

Maybe some small town/small school politics. Story almost seems unbelievable.

I guess it depends on what you consider small. DD''s HS has 2500 students. The other example is a school of 1400. Most schools in the surrounding areas (townships) are around 2500. The city census is 64,000 and the surrounding areas hold around 371,000 if I remember correctly.