Belly Button thread

[Buttermaker]

I could name the muscles and regions - but do I really have to? Did you think your left wrist would feel something when attempting this cue?

Just a thought ... when giving a cue to "create the right feel" ... consider describing the 'feel' that you want 'felt' and/or 'created'. If the 'feel' is too difficult for you to describe, then at least narrow the 'feel' down to a particular body segment.

 

[NoonTime]

And so while it is OK for some posters to talk about the belly button (noontime) its not ok for others (TDS) for some reason.

TDS can say whatever he wants, he just choses one line jibberish like "up front action" or "2 legs supporting".

Noon….here is our exchange on the belly button

Redhotcoach:

So you have a rag wring between the rear leg and hip AND another between the bb and butt? Or am I way off?

the pre mentioned swingbuilder response:

Close

Just keep the BB stable. Try to keep it from moving back or moving forward. Just keep it in place.

Coil your rear hip forward BUT keep the belly button from going back and around to face the catcher. Keep the BB from moving towards the catcher when you coil.

Now

Keep the BB from facing the pitcher as your rear leg gets driven.

Simple simple and a great teaching application to get the hitter to coil properly and unload the lower properly.

It's just like THE MOVE in the back foot. It makes the loading in the unload better, stronger, tighter, explosive.

Noontime:

like swingbuilders response and will add the following:

Imagine the rag continuing up the spine, past the wringing between rear hip and leg. If left free above the rearward turning hips, then the rag above the hips just loosely turns with the hips.

So grab it and allow the rearward turning hip to create a 2nd wring with the same action that it is already doing.

The variable in this "top wring" is where the figurative hand grabs the top of the rag. Yes you can grab it at the shoulders and wring between shoulders and hips. What I suggest is to try to grab the top of the rag lower. Down by the belly button. Now you can grab and just stabilize the rag at the BB while the hips wring under, or you can actively try to wring the BB forward. It's the same action to varrying degrees. One persons "hold in place" is another persons "turn forward against the rearward wringing hips. Play with it. Figure out the degree of forward wringing vs holding in place wringing that works for you. Try to get a hold of that rag down by the BB instead of up by the shoulders. Actually try it both ways and see if you get differences in the way the torso responds the the "top wring"

Go slow (the mud disclaimer) and try it just standing there. You'll know you are doing it correctly when the front shoulder is lowered because of the wring between hips and BB

Ohhhhh... pretty colors... what are we talking about?

There has been lot's written on rear/bb and like anything it's probably been beaten to death, but it really doesn't need to be any more complex than the above.

 

[Buttermaker]

Well yes and no. Maybe your version works with all of the hitters you work with - I can't say one way or the other.

I do know that when I ask a hitter to either try and get the front hip under the belly button or try and keep the front hip lower than the rear hip - I get the movement and they get the feeling I am looking for and it takes about 2 mins.

It does seem a bit too hemispheric when I do "c" as opposed to the more diagonal feel I get when I use either one of the cues I mentioned.

Thanks for the well thought out reply.

Redhotcoach:


the pre mentioned swingbuilder response:


Noontime:




Ohhhhh... pretty colors... what are we talking about?

There has been lot's written on rear/bb and like anything it's probably been beaten to death, but it really doesn't need to be any more complex than the above.

 

[NoonTime]

Well yes and no. Maybe your version works with all of the hitters you work with - I can't say one way or the other.

I do know that when I ask a hitter to either try and get the front hip under the belly button or try and keep the front hip lower than the rear hip - I get the movement and they get the feeling I am looking for and it takes about 2 mins.

It does seem a bit too hemispheric when I do "c" as opposed to the more diagonal feel I get when I use either one of the cues I mentioned.

Thanks for the well thought out reply.

I agree. C) is just describing the leg and hip action. The "extra" part from that experiment post is where the core comes in above the hips. IMO that's where the "diagonal" feel would come into play. I like both of these:

either try and get the front hip under the belly button or try and keep the front hip lower than the rear hip

 

[Buttermaker]

When you do the C - do you feel a stretch across the pelvis on the anterior side? That's how I feel it. And I feel a stretch up the ipsilateral side of my back (latissimus dorsi and quadratus lumborum) even with engaging the core.

When I use the other cues I feel the stretch across the posterior side of my pelvis that automatically creates a stretch in my glutues medius and contralateral side of my torso (front external oblique and front quadratus lumborum) as I pivot into the rear hip.

Trying to as descriptive as possible for some of the more seasoned posters.

What am I doing differently than you?

 

[NoonTime]

When you do the C - do you feel a stretch across the pelvis on the anterior side? That's how I feel it. And I feel a stretch up the ipsilateral side of my back (latissimus dorsi and quadratus lumborum) even with engaging the core.

When I use the other cues I feel the stretch across the posterior side of my pelvis that automatically creates a stretch in my glutues medius and contralateral side of my torso (front external oblique and front quadratus lumborum) as I pivot into the rear hip.

Trying to as descriptive as possible for some of the more seasoned posters.

What am I doing differently than you?

Don't know. No time to google all that. When I do either of your two cues above independently I get different feels. But if I put them together and try to do both front hip under the bb and keeping front hip lower than rear i'd say that's pretty close to the feel I am after with any other cue that lends itself to rear/bb.

 

[rdbass]

C) Don't move your front hip or knee back, and try to move the rear hip forward and around the back so that it is directly behind the front hip. This should get you coiled in the rear hip while also shifting your center of gravity such that you are no longer balanced over your rear leg and begin to move in the direction towards the pitcher.

do you feel a stretch across the pelvis on the anterior side?

I feel a stretch up the ipsilateral side of my back

 

[rdbass]

front external oblique and front quadratus lumborum)

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Not sure why this continues to so difficult for you. For those that have tried it fairly - said it makes sense and could be useful.

If you cannot grasp the cue - then don't use it.

Not sure why it is difficult for you to describe a feel of a cue that you so highly recommend.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I could name the muscles and regions - but do I really have to? Did you think your left wrist would feel something when attempting this cue?

Describing the general area where folks should be placing "feel sensors" would be helpful.