Worst rule in softball: Dropped Third Strike?

[Mike]

Thanks BretMan,

does anybody teach run no matter what? I know I have said that in 10-U but have changed my mind as I want them concentrating on hitting, not running just in case. How does everybody practice dropped third strikes for offense?

 

[BretMan]

Way back when I coached, I taught them to always run. Or, at least, start to run until they're sure they've been called out. I wasn't teaching this as a form of deception, hoping to draw an unnecessary throw. It was more along the lines of being aware of the situation and realizing when you might be able to try for first, instead of just standing there or heading for the dugout and handing the defense an easy put out.

Today, from an umpire's perspective, it seems like it's commonly taught because I sure see a lot of kids automatically start running for first on third strikes! Also as an umpire, I follow the mechanic of emphatically signalling and announcing, "Batter's out!" whenever a batter starts heading to first when she is not entitled to. This standard mechanic will usually nip in the bud any chaos that might arise on a third strike.

Teaching very young or inexperienced players when they can or can't run can be kind of tricky. The rule itself is tough to explain- Well, yes, Susie, you can run to first on your third strike...sometimes! It depends on if the catcher catches the ball or not and if first base is occupied and how many outs there are. Then sometimes you can and sometimes you can't. To which little Susie is probably going to reply...Huh?

 

[mad hornet]

yeah, yeah...I KNOW it is a playing rule, but I don't like it..especially when it was MY pitcher that threw it in the dirt...but I see your point, and I concede the loss.

Last year one of my girls had a real nice base hit off a pitch that bounced. I don't encourage swinging at bad pitches, but I wasn't about to take that away from her!

 

[MTR]

BretMan - thanks for the history of the DTS rule. I still don't like it, it serves no real modern softball purpose, and IMO should be considered removed from the rule book.

Nor does the LBR, yet there it sits in all the rule books.

 

[MTR]

Last year one of my girls had a real nice base hit off a pitch that bounced. I don't encourage swinging at bad pitches, but I wasn't about to take that away from her!

Sorta like the scene from Major League on opening day:

[Willie Mays Hayes has just made a 'basket catch' to end the inning]
Lou Brown: Nice catch, Hayes. Don't ever f***in' do it again.

 

[Matt Chipman]

Bretman...actuallly there is a rule that says exactly that....

I can speak to the two rule sets I'm most familiar with, ASA and NFHS/high school. Both have a rule that says it's not a violation for a retired batter to head to first on a third strike when she's not entitled to.

Generally, for all rule sets, if a batter or runner continues to run after being put out, that in itself is not a rule violation or interference. If that retired player gets in the way of a throw or runs into a fielder, and that prevents the defense from making a play, then it can become interference. But it's not interference just because the defense makes an unecessary throw to "retire" this already retired player. It's not interference until the retired player actually interferes with something- an opportunity or attempt by the defense to get an out on another runner who is still active.

If after the third strike that is dropped....and the runner takes off towards first even though the base is occupied that is interference and draws the throw to first.....this may "prevents the defense from making a play" to get R1 out. It is interference and the retired runner interference happens in this manner the runner CLOSEST to the plate is out (along with the batter who struck out.

 

[29dad]

If after the third strike that is dropped....and the runner takes off towards first even though the base is occupied that is interference and draws the throw to first.....this may "prevents the defense from making a play" to get R1 out. It is interference and the retired runner interference happens in this manner the runner CLOSEST to the plate is out (along with the batter who struck out.

Is this true? Our organization has a rule - you strikeout you run to first. No exceptions. Not meant to deceive anyone but it's meant to get it ingrained in the girls that they shouldn't just stand at home plate after striking out. And I think there is a certain punishment component to it as well, although that's just my speculation. I personally don't like it much but I'm not a coach. The situation that was described above probably happened to us 100 times last year and we were never called for interference.

 

[Comp]

If after the third strike that is dropped....and the runner takes off towards first even though the base is occupied that is interference and draws the throw to first.....this may "prevents the defense from making a play" to get R1 out. It is interference and the retired runner interference happens in this manner the runner CLOSEST to the plate is out (along with the batter who struck out.

The defense is responsible for knowing the situation and should know no throw is needed to retire an already out batter. Just because the runner took off for first does not mean it is interference if the catcher tries to throw them out at first. If there is a runner at first, batter strikes out and takes off and interferes with the catcher attempting to pick off the runner, now you have interference by a retired player and the runner closest to home would be out.

 

[guero_gordo]

DTS can be overwhelming for a young C at first because it's one more thing to do, but IMLE, they settle down pretty quick.

 

[chinamigarden]

I don't know if this is common where you guys are:
When a ball hits the ground in front of the plate, and then pops up and hits the batter, they get to take first base. I completely hate this. If it hits the ground, IMHO, it should be a dead ball. Especially at the younger ages, when it's pretty common to be short on a pitch...

so a ball in the dirt that does not hit the runner, is that one dead too? I mean when do you cut that off, in front of the batters box? In front of the plate, in front of the catcher? One more thing for the ump to make a judgment call on? Ball hit in front of the plate, dead ball so return your baserunner back to third and the run didn't count because the ball was dead?

edit: I see Brett already made this point much better then I