Why D1 ?

[lostcreek1]

I'm wondering if anyone has an estimate of the cost of softball to get to the D1 level. Lessons, team costs, travel expenses etc. How much of an investment was it to get that scholarship?

Probably not a good ROI, if looking at it from a pure investment point of view. If you consider investing $400 a month for the last 18 years in a S&P 500 index fund would have given you north of 200k.

 

[DonnyS]

Probably not a good ROI, if looking at it from a pure investment point of view. If you consider investing $400 a month for the last 18 years in a S&P 500 index fund would have given you north of 200k.

It's a horrible investment. I'm guessing we are pushing $20K spent just for 2023.

Website with some interesting data compiled.

Softball Scholarships & College Links | Scholarship Stats.com

Stats & Links to all US Colleges with Softball teams, athletic scholarships, odds of playing college softball, average SAT & ACT scores & admission rates.

scholarshipstats.com

Edit: to be clear, I view TB tournaments as just a series of short vacations that I get to take with my daughter before she goes off to college. It's a horrible financial investment, but I love it.

 

[TwoPitcherFam]

I doubt anyone here handed their 8 year old a bat thinking of ROI. If you did, that’s on you. Given we know 1.8% of HS play D1, it’s a bad ROI for 49 out of 50 families - strictly cash flow speaking. If you make it, 12 scholarships a team if fully funded. If you spend the money to pursue a D1 dream, there are no mysteries here.

If one is fortunate enough to be in the softball 1%, well that kid did something very rare. There are schools where D1 pitchers (and others) are getting full rides and those schools are 85k a year. Just like baseball kids get drafted of HS. That ROI is great but limited to a tiny group. These are unicorns in youth sports and yes everyone else’s strictly cash ROI is terrible.

 

[HotRoute]

I'm wondering if anyone has an estimate of the cost of softball to get to the D1 level. Lessons, team costs, travel expenses etc. How much of an investment was it to get that scholarship?

I tried estimating our ROI just get an idea where we ended up.

DD played little league baseball until she was 10. That cost us virtually nothing. Then played with on a local B level travel team from ages 11-13. Only two tournaments during that time required an overnight stay. I estimated the cost about $8K total for those years.

Then she played on regional high level team for her last four years, with the last three years of that playing a national schedule. We definitely spent on average $15K per year.

So I estimated about $68K “investment” for her travel ball career. She didn’t decide until freshman year that she wanted to play in college - it was always a maybe. But we all were having fun so we just went with it.

She was fortunate to end up at a public university that is the most affordable in our state. COA is about $26K a year. $7K academic scholarship given out to anyone with the grades. School allows stacking of athletic and academic scholarships. Athletic scholarship % is off the total COA, regardless of any academic money.

Her athletic scholarship was less for her freshman year due to those taking those a 5th year. So, with all of that, I think we will “net” about $25K after her four years. But had she been at a more expensive school, we definitely would have been in the red.


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[Rolling Hard]

My daughter's meal plan is $5,710 per year. If you average 15 weeks per semester, and 30 weeks per year, that's $190 per week for food. Oh, and she said the dining hall food is gross.

You would think the coaches would want/demand their athletes be provide with proper nutrition. That's like fueling a race car with 85 octane.

 

[DKOfTFC]

I have an academically solid but not gifted daughter. She is athletically gifted. We are financially sound enough that there would be no need based aid. I have a husband that graduated a d3 football program with a ton of debt for the same reasons. We said early on that d3 would not be an option for her. We would have considered all other levels because while we anticipated she would earn some academic aid we knew it would not be significant compared to tuition. Our goal was for her choose a solid academic experience at a school where she could graduate with little debt and enjoy playing softball.


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Why would the Division Level even matter then if you were 'financially sound' enough , no need for aid?

I'm not saying that there were any mistakes made on your daughter's decision, because I wouldnt know that. But it seems like you may be insuating that if an athlete goes to a Div 2 or Div 3 program they would be saddled with debt. That's just not the case. And I sometimes feel parents overthink this Division Level option.

My two cents - and this is for parents to consider (perhaps with a grain of salt) - but I think it's VITAL that your Daughter (in this case if its Softball) makes sure the College they attend STRONGLY supports their major FIRST and foremost. My kids that go on to play at the collegiate level are NOT going to go out and make a career in Softball - but instead they will be leveraging their education as much as possible as they forge into their careers.

And I've got news for having kids at all levels of Softball ...............there are MANY Div 3 programs that can (and have) beat Div 1 and 2 programs. Unless you are playing at the TOP CREAM of the CROP program, girls Softball at the Collegiate Level will have lots of talent.

Additionally, one of my kids went on to play at a very small private pricey college, its a Division 3 school. She was talked to and recruited for many Div 1 programs ....she chose her school based on her Major first (and school strength) - Pre Med Bio / Neurology . Based on her Merit Scholarship and our asset management of funds , she will not have a penny of dollars owed after she finishes school.

Concluding (and this is JMO ) - find the program that offers a definitive career pathway, while offering up a strong Softball program. Dont overthink it - School First.............School First...................School First........then Softball (as hard as that is for me to say, its just being real about it )

 

[Vertigo]

Why would the Division Level even matter then if you were 'financially sound' enough , no need for aid?

I’m going to caveat this by saying I am not, in any way, assuming what angispeds can afford, nor their financial situation; but what I think she is saying here is that due to their finances, they make enough money that they will not qualify for need-based aid. Hence it was worth it for them to go with an athletic scholarship at a D1 program to help with the cost of college.

Many families make enough that they don’t qualify for aid but that does not necessarily mean that paying full college tuition would be easy for them at certain schools. Yes, many D3‘s offer merit money, but even with that they can still be costly. Merit money also has specific requirements, typically based on academic ability. Many people also don’t want to saddle their kids with student loans if they don’t have to.

 

[TwoPitcherFam]

Why would the Division Level even matter then if you were 'financially sound' enough , no need for aid?

I'm not saying that there were any mistakes made on your daughter's decision, because I wouldnt know that. But it seems like you may be insuating that if an athlete goes to a Div 2 or Div 3 program they would be saddled with debt. That's just not the case. And I sometimes feel parents overthink this Division Level option.

My two cents - and this is for parents to consider (perhaps with a grain of salt) - but I think it's VITAL that your Daughter (in this case if its Softball) makes sure the College they attend STRONGLY supports their major FIRST and foremost. My kids that go on to play at the collegiate level are NOT going to go out and make a career in Softball - but instead they will be leveraging their education as much as possible as they forge into their careers.

And I've got news for having kids at all levels of Softball ...............there are MANY Div 3 programs that can (and have) beat Div 1 and 2 programs. Unless you are playing at the TOP CREAM of the CROP program, girls Softball at the Collegiate Level will have lots of talent.

Additionally, one of my kids went on to play at a very small private pricey college, its a Division 3 school. She was talked to and recruited for many Div 1 programs ....she chose her school based on her Major first (and school strength) - Pre Med Bio / Neurology . Based on her Merit Scholarship and our asset management of funds , she will not have a penny of dollars owed after she finishes school.

Concluding (and this is JMO ) - find the program that offers a definitive career pathway, while offering up a strong Softball program. Dont overthink it - School First.............School First...................School First........then Softball (as hard as that is for me to say, it’s just being real about it )

”MANY Div 3 programs beat Div 1”…. Let’s hear those scores and head-to-head records. Does it happen? Probably. To imply it’s near parity? If we are trying to find the lowest D1 to compare to the highest D3… that cross-over is tiny compared to the amount of schools overall.

Most D1 programs have the majors. P5 which is a quarter of D1, have the MOST majors as they are the largest schools. Sure there are some small D1’s- just like virtually all D3’s. But head to head, D1’s have more majors to choose from. The top 25 academic schools in any ranking service (like US News) list the majority as D1.

If a kid is good enough to have D1 and D3 offers put in front of them, they would most likely be similar academic schools- because players make their lists to reach out to schools, attend camps and club coaches try to matchmake the fit. If a kid is good enough to have multiple D1 offers from their list, how can they not find their major? Why not get some or all of upwards of 350k paid for? The players in my daughter’s class who have committed got 50-100% paid for.

I totally get it if a kid chooses D3 because doesn’t want to play 50+ games with travel and the added grind versus maybe focus more on school or social. Makes sense- all good… but D1 is sought after because you get paid to do so and can get into better schools than otherwise academically if you choose to.

 

[Vertigo]

”MANY Div 3 programs beat Div 1”…. Let’s hear those scores and head-to-head records. Does it happen? Probably. To imply it’s near parity? If we are trying to find the lowest D1 to compare to the highest D3… that cross-over is tiny compared to the amount of schools overall.

Most D1 programs have the majors. P5 which is a quarter of D1, have the MOST majors as they are the largest schools. Sure there are some small D1’s- just like virtually all D3’s. But head to head, D1’s have more majors to choose from. The top 25 academic schools in any ranking service (like US News) list the majority as D1.

If a kid is good enough to have D1 and D3 offers put in front of them, they would most likely be similar academic schools- because players make their lists to reach out to schools, attend camps and club coaches try to matchmake the fit. If a kid is good enough to have multiple D1 offers from their list, how can they not find their major? Why not get some or all of upwards of 350k paid for? The players in my daughter’s class who have committed got 50-100% paid for.

I totally get it if a kid chooses D3 because doesn’t want to play 50+ games with travel and the added grind versus maybe focus more on school or social. Makes sense- all good… but D1 is sought after because you get paid to do so and can get into better schools than otherwise academically if you choose to.

……and just to give the other side of this - yes, most D1’s have a lot of majors, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they are the best school for a specific major. Plus, for research-based majors, undergrads might have to compete with masters students to be on projects or to gain valuable internships or lab time on campus. This isn’t the case at D3’s where there are mostly only undergrads at a good portion of schools. It sometimes isn’t as simple as just finding a school that has your major.

Many academic scholarships can offer just as much, and in many cases, even more than athletic money. Plus, they are good for all four years if you retain a certain GPA. Athletic money can change year to year.

Also, don’t underestimate the amount of travel for games that some D3 conferences require. The one team in my DD’s conference is 7 hours away. Closest one is probably about 2.5 hours away. Most are about 3-5 hours away, all by bus. They play a DH on Sat and again on Sunday, with another DH during the week. If it is an “away” weekend, they play a DH at one school and then travel to the next school immediately after the games. Yes, definitely less games than D1, but still can be a grind. When they are in-season their social life is extremely limited. It definitely is not easy at any level.

I agree with previous posters who state that academics should be the main driving force when choosing a particular school, but I can understand why some want the D1 athletic experience. It truly is a very personal decision.

 

[TwoPitcherFam]

……and just to give the other side of this - yes, most D1’s have a lot of majors, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they are the best school for a specific major. Plus, for research-based majors, undergrads might have to compete with masters students to be on projects or to gain valuable internships or lab time on campus. This isn’t the case at D3’s where there are mostly only undergrads at a good portion of schools. It sometimes isn’t as simple as just finding a school that has your major.

Many academic scholarships can offer just as much, and in many cases, even more than athletic money. Plus, they are good for all four years if you retain a certain GPA. Athletic money can change year to year.

Also, don’t underestimate the amount of travel for games that some D3 conferences require. The one team in my DD’s conference is 7 hours away. Closest one is probably about 2.5 hours away. Most are about 3-5 hours away, all by bus. They play a DH on Sat and again on Sunday, with another DH during the week. If it is an “away” weekend, they play a DH at one school and then travel to the next school immediately after the games. Yes, definitely less games than D1, but still can be a grind. When they are in-season their social life is extremely limited. It definitely is not easy at any level.

I agree with previous posters who state that academics should be the main driving force when choosing a particular school, but I can understand why some want the D1 athletic experience. It truly is a very personal decision.

Excellent points.

Academic scholarships at D3 though are variable. For example, 2 top D3 conferences - NESCAC and UAA have few to no schools with academic scholarships.