Which one would go farther?

[Greenmonsters]

Right on. Can you send me the link where you learned that a ball hit on the end of the bat contacts the bat for the same amount of time as one hit on the sweet spot? I promise Ill read it! I ASSumed the ball would leave the bat faster if it hit the sweet spot.

Thanks GM

Here's the link Ian http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/ind...e_science_of_the_bat_ball_collision/#comments Dr. Nathan answers many of the questions you've been asking (including an explanation of what happens when the ball is hit off the end of the bat). And you aren't alone, there's an awful lot that seems counter-intuitive or inconsistent with what we were taught or thought we learned from playing and being around the game over the years.

 

[ian]

Here's the link Ian http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/ind...e_science_of_the_bat_ball_collision/#comments Dr. Nathan answers many of the questions you've been asking (including an explanation of what happens when the ball is hit off the end of the bat). And you aren't alone, there's an awful lot that seems counter-intuitive or inconsistent with what we were taught or thought we learned from playing and being around the game over the years.

Thanks GM that was the second time I read that. It was a good read.

I must have missed the pure theoretical prediction of how long the ball contacts the bat on a off the end hit. Do you have a post # you want me to look at?

Seems like an off the end hit would contact the ball longer than a sweet spot hit. The extreme flex in the bat leads me to believe this.

Like ive said before, im sure the evidence has been presented. I must have missed it. Ive seen evidence of golf club shafts, aluminum beams and what not but Im looking for info on bats. The amplitude or wave lengths or whatever is different. A bat dont resonate like an aluminum beam hit by a superball IMHO.

 

[JJsqueeze]

ian-

Are you familiar with modes of vibration and the fact that a given object has a finite number of vibrational modes? and that certain inputs will result in certain modes being excited?

for instance...the wind in the Tacoma narrows famously excited a vibrational node of a bridge to the point of collapse.

Well, a baseball hit by a wood bat has built in vibrational modes such that none of them are fast enough to travel from hands to the end of the barrel before the ball is gone.

It is really easy to calculate just Buy the Vibration app for your iPhone, glue your iPhone to a bat and whack it. The app should give you the dominant frequencies and then you can calculate the propagation delay yourself and compare it to the distance from handle to end of the bat.

Cost of IPhone or similar device $250
cost of app $4.99
Getting you to STFU- priceless.

 

[baseball]

ian-

Are you familiar with modes of vibration and the fact that a given object has a finite number of vibrational modes? and that certain inputs will result in certain modes being excited?

for instance...the wind in the Tacoma narrows famously excited a vibrational node of a bridge to the point of collapse.

Well, a baseball hit by a wood bat has built in vibrational modes such that none of them are fast enough to travel from hands to the end of the barrel before the ball is gone.

It is really easy to calculate just Buy the Vibration app for your iPhone, glue your iPhone to a bat and whack it. The app should give you the dominant frequencies and then you can calculate the propagation delay yourself and compare it to the distance from handle to end of the bat.

Cost of IPhone or similar device $250
cost of app $4.99
Getting you to STFU- priceless.

You don't need to be so mean. We are all here to have fun not make fun of people.

 

[ian]

ian-

Are you familiar with modes of vibration and the fact that a given object has a finite number of vibrational modes? and that certain inputs will result in certain modes being excited?

for instance...the wind in the Tacoma narrows famously excited a vibrational node of a bridge to the point of collapse.

Well, a baseball hit by a wood bat has built in vibrational modes such that none of them are fast enough to travel from hands to the end of the barrel before the ball is gone.

It is really easy to calculate just Buy the Vibration app for your iPhone, glue your iPhone to a bat and whack it. The app should give you the dominant frequencies and then you can calculate the propagation delay yourself and compare it to the distance from handle to end of the bat.

Cost of IPhone or similar device $250
cost of app $4.99
Getting you to STFU- priceless.

Roflmao ha ha. Youre so smart and so funny! Jokin' JJsqueeze!

Ill get the app and test it. It will be fun to see differences between wood, composite, two piece composite and aluminum bats. Hell I may even test beams if I get bored.

Which reminds me, how long does the ball stay in contact with a bat when it strikes the handle vs the end? Ive seen pictures of the ball compressing against the end of the bat and the bat is flexed big time. It doesnt flex as much on a sweet spot hit.

 

[JJsqueeze]

Roflmao ha ha. Youre so smart and so funny! Jokin' JJsqueeze!

Ill get the app and test it. It will be fun to see differences between wood, composite, two piece composite and aluminum bats. Hell I may even test beams if I get bored.

Which reminds me, how long does the ball stay in contact with a bat when it strikes the handle vs the end? Ive seen pictures of the ball compressing against the end of the bat and the bat is flexed big time. It doesnt flex as much on a sweet spot hit.

I would think the ball is in contact with the bat for less time on a handle hit and that the ball does not compress as much. As for flexing more on an end of the bat hit I don't know either. ill have to check the studies but I would guess that when you hit the ball on the sweet spot you are hitting it exactly 1/2 the way between nodes so that you are actually exciting the vibrations such that the sweet spot sees the max amplitude and can bounce off the bat. That is why they feel so sweet and don't sting the hands, the bat is excited perfectly so the hands are at a node and the ball is being launched with max energy transfer.

An end of bat hit causes a lot of flex and probably a higher frequency, but I think the amplitude of the actual bend is lower.

I don't think it is as simple as the further out you to the bigger the bend, it is more subtle and it depends where you "pluck the string". If you are familiar with a guitar, think about plucking hard at the end of the string vs plucking right In th middle or on a harmonic.


is this answer bland enough for all the sensitive FNGs?

 

[Stever]

JJ, that stuff on Nathan's site has been around for a very long time. I have read his website.

Are you saying that my experience in coaching for over 30 years of my life is meaningless? I'll leave this stuff up to you guys that know better.

Edited to add:

Actually, it is 40+ years. Wasted.

I wouldn't let these protractor guys bother you, those who coach and played the game know that your right.

I did another test this morning, it was a perfect opportunity. I had a kid 5-11" 220 lb (college player), and a 4-11" 100lb slapper (high school sophomore). The slapper had equal batspeed to the big kid +/- 1. Same bat, the big kid is hitting the ball 250" easily, and the slapper was hitting the ball 180', never came close to the fence.

The Protractors are missing something very important here, what is it?

 

[JJsqueeze]

The Protractors are missing something very important here, what is it?

the ability to blindly trust some random internet dudes "test" findings?

I think you have a Zepp right? The least you could do is post the graphs from the test as proof that this actually happened. Or is all this based on your bionic vision?

 

[Greenmonsters]

I wouldn't let these protractor guys bother you, those who coach and played the game know that your right.

I did another test this morning, it was a perfect opportunity. I had a kid 5-11" 220 lb (college player), and a 4-11" 100lb slapper (high school sophomore). The slapper had equal batspeed to the big kid +/- 1. Same bat, the big kid is hitting the ball 250" easily, and the slapper was hitting the ball 180', never came close to the fence.

The Protractors are missing something very important here, what is it?

If they are both swinging the same bat at the same speed AND both are timing the pitch and squaring the ball, the batted ball exit speeds will be the same. If that is all true, the difference in batted ball distance is simply related to trajectory - your bigger girl is hitting fly balls and your slapper is hitting line drives. Instead of you wasting your time here trying to explain that the little girl can't hit as far because she's little, your time would be more productively spent teaching your slapper to elevate the ball so she can get top 10 D1 full ride offers.

 

[DNeeld]

I wouldn't let these protractor guys bother you, those who coach and played the game know that your right.

I did another test this morning, it was a perfect opportunity. I had a kid 5-11" 220 lb (college player), and a 4-11" 100lb slapper (high school sophomore). The slapper had equal batspeed to the big kid +/- 1. Same bat, the big kid is hitting the ball 250" easily, and the slapper was hitting the ball 180', never came close to the fence.

The Protractors are missing something very important here, what is it?

For the size of the player to matter, they have to transfer their larger mass into the bat somehow. The only way this is accomplished is via bat speed. If bat speeds are equal, then the force hitting the ball is equal. The mass behind the generation of the bat speed is irrelevant.

If this isn't true, please explain the process by which a person transfer their mass into the bat's mass in a manner other than higher bat speed.