When is the proper coil?

[Jeff Kneiert]

I have read what seems to be several different aspects of when the coil should be taking place and it may be that they are just extremes of the same concept, but I would like to hear some conversation on this.
Do we coil as we load, as we stride or as we begin shifting our weight forward? Or does this all happen simultaneously?

 

[Wellphyt]

"The hips and hands cock as you move your lead foot to stride, the front knee turning in to help the hips rotate back. You are cocking your hips as you stride, and it’s so important to get that right."

-Ted Williams

"Cocking hips, so essential to the golf swing but never articulated in baseball, is at the root of batting power. It occurs in unison with the beginning of the stride, the lead knee turning in to facilitate rotation of the hips and shoulders."

-Ted Williams


My understanding of how the lower body works took a giant leap forward when I realized that the hip cock/coil and uncoil, is the weight shift part of the swing. The hip cock/coil is the backward weight shift. The unwinding of the hips or uncoil is the forward weight shift. The amount of backward sway and stride length, is an individual style choice. Babe Ruth delivered his weight shift with a lot of "style". Pujols delivers his weight shift with very little "style". I would argue that using a smaller stride to deliver the weight shift is more efficient than using a longer stride.

 

[Jeff Kneiert]

Ok so you're saying that we are coiling as we stride forward, do we continue to coil once our toe touches? If I am trying to feel the pressure in my rear foot as I coil against my rear hip, I have a much better sensation of tension in the foot if I keep my weight back until toe touch then begin weight shift forward as I continue to coil before thrusting my rear hip. I just feel better tension or force if I continue to coil as I shift weight forward and I drop my front heal. If, on the other hand, I coil completely during the stride I find less weight, less force, less control in that back foot because it seems like I am unable to keep pressure there.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I have read what seems to be several different aspects of when the coil should be taking place and it may be that they are just extremes of the same concept, but I would like to hear some conversation on this.
Do we coil as we load, as we stride or as we begin shifting our weight forward? Or does this all happen simultaneously?

The 'coil' is the 'load'.

 

[mkral]

FFS
Correct me if I am wrong,
But you will stop the coil at toe touch and ready for "Fire" or release or whatever you want to call it at heel touch. At least that is what we are teaching our kids. The coil is very subtle and should the use of the word "coil" can lead to over-rotating and pinning the bat to far back to where the batter cannot and will not have time to get their shoulders around on the pitch.
Cocking the hands with the load and fire the hips followed by the shoulders at heel touch. I know there is a lot more to it then that but in a nut shell if you can get them to step softly and load at the same time slowly with good balance then tilt and turn you will be ahead of the game.
just my 2 cent worth.

 

[RayR]

Mkral,

The real power of the swing comes from the lower half opening against the still closing upper half. If done properly there is no chance of over rotating.

 

[mkral]

I agree with what you are saying. The weight transfer has to happen as well as the lower half leading the swing out of the step. Or should I say the stride helps the weight transfer and begins the lower half opening. I get that.
My point was just to answer Jeff's question and I probably did it poorly.
MTS on your clips Bustos and Arradondo(SP?) both have very different rear elbow placement. What is your preferred elbow placement? High or pointed down more? If the kids are to feel the stretch like pulling a bow they cannot have it low in my opinion.
Thanks
Mike

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

FFS
Correct me if I am wrong,
But you will stop the coil at toe touch and ready for "Fire" or release or whatever you want to call it at heel touch. At least that is what we are teaching our kids. The coil is very subtle and should the use of the word "coil" can lead to over-rotating and pinning the bat to far back to where the batter cannot and will not have time to get their shoulders around on the pitch.
Cocking the hands with the load and fire the hips followed by the shoulders at heel touch. I know there is a lot more to it then that but in a nut shell if you can get them to step softly and load at the same time slowly with good balance then tilt and turn you will be ahead of the game.
just my 2 cent worth.

For me, given a well-timed pitch, the reversal of the rear hip from ‘coil’ to ‘uncoil’ feels like it is taking place into toe-touch.

For me, the “fire” is into heel plant. The “fire” is what causes my front heel to become planted or at least weighted.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Mkral,

The real power of the swing comes from the lower half opening against the still closing upper half. If done properly there is no chance of over rotating.

I'll add to the "no chance of over rotating" and state that I believe the coil/uncoil has a directional element associated to it.

Those that teach the bellybutton pointing to a particular portion of the field as a function of pitch location, could possible take the concept further and consider the rotational thrust element of the coil/uncoil process.

 

[Jeff Kneiert]

The 'coil' is the 'load'.

FFS-
Is that the total extent of the coil? Do we coil at all as we stride or do we just hold the initial coil until toe touch? And if we do continue to coil as we stride, does it stop at toe touch. Is there any resultant weight shift at toe touch or is all the weight shift done during the stride? I apologize for all the questions but I have been swinging the bat a lot lately and at times the whole process becomes a blur as I try to experience each part. Finally, does the stretch start as the heal touches and the hips open or am I way off base here?