What would be on your list of intolerable teaching points?

[Mr T]

Good point Mountie. Cues are used differently by different coaches. But squish would at the very least be a red flag to start to worry and ask questions. If you are just a parent and unsure, move on to another instructor.

Good stuff FFS as always.

Yes Mountie another thought on that is the Justin Stone thread talking about a hands to the ball drill. Even though I am not a big fan of this drill and especially the verbiage and way it was performed, the "hands to the ball" drill shown is in the context of occurring in the proper sequence, and really JS is talking about keeping hands in a tunnel closer to the body and in fact not casting them.

Another huge one I forgot that is surprisingly common: stride early. Get your stride foot down before the pitcher even releases the ball.

 

[Eric F]

I have a comment about "squish the bug". Everyone here seems to hate this butin the Bobby Woods video that many applauded as very good and must have, he clearly shows this technique in the first segment of his vid. He calls it turning the foot and weight transference. We had a hitting lesson last night and that was one of the instructors fixes of the night for DD.

Are we too hard on squish the bug? Just seems like a clever name someone came up with for something they do need to do for maybe little kids to understand. Just a thought. Namaste.

"Squish the bug" is interpreted by most kids (and taught by far too many coaches) as spinning the rear leg in the hip socket and keeping their weight on that foot. This doesn't lead to the proper mechanics found in a good swing. The rear side needs to drive forward, not spin in place. The rear foot should rotate up onto the toe as the rear side is driven forward into a firm front side. For many hitters, the power of the hip drive may result in the rear toe being dragged forward, too.

 

[RichK]

What I'd love to see in this thread -- and which I've started to build mentally and likely will put into Evernote at some point for myself -- is HOW TO ANSWER myths and misconceptions.

Would folks be willing to pull a cue into a post and then describe why it is wrong? That would be so valuable for talking to coaches, parents, doubters, etc.

For instance, when I talk about why "swing down" is wrong with parents or other coaches, I often reference the Ryan Braun videos on this site.

In one set, Braun is working his upper body and hands ONLY via tee work and is talking about swinging down, staying on top, staying inside, etc.

In another set of videos, he is taking game swings that show none of the swing down but have the classic Nike swoosh path.

I then show with my own swing how adding tilt, rear leg drive, stretch and fire (vs. front leg push) morphs a swing down handset drill (and mindset) into Braun's game swing.

I tell the problem is this: coaches teach the swing down drill work as THE swing, rather than understanding it as training one piece that eventually becomes part of the full swing. Looking at videos of Braun's swing, it is clear he is doing something else.

In this case, using video clips, being able to explain what is right and what is wrong (and why), and being able to demonstrate both the right and wrong mechanics can gain the trust of the people whose minds you are trying to change.

I'd love to get input with video clips, historical teaching evolution, mechanical explanations, etc. for various other "intolerable teaching points."

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

What I'd love to see in this thread -- and which I've started to build mentally and likely will put into Evernote at some point for myself -- is HOW TO ANSWER myths and misconceptions.

Would folks be willing to pull a cue into a post and then describe why it is wrong? That would be so valuable for talking to coaches, parents, doubters, etc.

For instance, when I talk about why "swing down" is wrong with parents or other coaches, I often reference the Ryan Braun videos on this site.

In one set, Braun is working his upper body and hands ONLY via tee work and is talking about swinging down, staying on top, staying inside, etc.

In another set of videos, he is taking game swings that show none of the swing down but have the classic Nike swoosh path.

I then show with my own swing how adding tilt, rear leg drive, stretch and fire (vs. front leg push) morphs a swing down handset drill (and mindset) into Braun's game swing.

I tell the problem is this: coaches teach the swing down drill work as THE swing, rather than understanding it as training one piece that eventually becomes part of the full swing. Looking at videos of Braun's swing, it is clear he is doing something else.

In this case, using video clips, being able to explain what is right and what is wrong (and why), and being able to demonstrate both the right and wrong mechanics can gain the trust of the people whose minds you are trying to change.

I'd love to get input with video clips, historical teaching evolution, mechanical explanations, etc. for various other "intolerable teaching points."

It is not "swing down through" ... it is "swing down to".

Said differently ... the focus on "swinging down" is in the first two frames, not all five frames.

Get the action correct in the first two frames ... and you're home free.

 

[Mr T]

Rich that would be good but would take a while. My goal was to see if there were a set of teaching points that would could nearly unanimously agree were terrible.

The reason wasn't to then feel smug about it. I was hoping it could be here as a list for confused parents, something that could help them navigate the various stuff they will likely run into as they journey through softball.

I know how that feels, because my daughter likes to pitch, and being a baseball guy, I know nothing about underhand pitching. It's very confusing as local instructors very much say and teach different styles. I was hoping to be able to ping the pitching group on this site and see if they could come up with a similar list. Because sadly I will admit I am still confused.

But maybe you are right. Maybe this is too simple. Maybe people need to be shown. It was also pointed out that cues like hands to the ball, a particularly ambiguous one, can conceivably be benign if they mean the right thing and are in context of the sequence.

And going even further, you bring up "swing down" as a practice method. Swing down as a cue, swing down in reality, and swing down in the on-deck circle, or in a drill are all different.

I think what happens is that some times coaches turn cues into philosophy. There is a difference between what should really happen, and what a given player feels is happening. Swing down as a cue could work for one's daughter, by all means. It's just coaches who see the cue work for a player or two, then lazily not see that it's not what is actually happening, and then make a "religion" out of swinging downward.

 

[redhotcoach]

I have been curious since IML brought up Epstein this morning, so I had been researching what they are up to. This from an article he wrote ties in with the last couple posts.

Unfortunately, though, many are still confused because a big problem stems from how certain hitting terms are defined. We seem to interpret what we see based on preconceived biases rather than being objective and fair-minded.

For example, Ted Williams, in his book, The Science of Hitting, said hitting is like swinging an axe when you chop down a tree." Many have taken this to mean "swing down." The reality--and what Ted actually meant--was in order to "chop" down a tree, you swing the axe slightly upward, then slightly downward, then slightly upward, etc., etc., carving a notch (">") in the tree trunk.

-Mike Epstein

 

[stiksdad]

Swing level has to be the worst, just creates so many other problems that takes time to fix, I cringe when I hear it, and I still hear it a lot.

 

[inde53546]

Im only a beginner so take it easy on me. Instead of hands or knob to ball I say hands to front elbow. Meaning and dmoing hands should move in a path to where the front elbow was in your stance. Hope that makes sense. Now back to the pitching forum before I get in too deep

 

[tjintx]

I love that guy. He is so passionate about it. Get down in the mud with the grunts and show how to do it right. LOL
Not only did He explain it he laid down and held the foot and worked the foot so there can be no misunderstanding......
The closest thing you can get to climbing inside the hitter's body and showing the right way..

Squishing the bug and spinning is not a fix ...

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I love that guy. He is so passionate about it. Get down in the mud with the grunts and show how to do it right. LOL
Not only did He explain it he laid down and held the foot and worked the foot so there can be no misunderstanding......
The closest thing you can get to climbing inside the hitter's body and showing the right way..

Diddo ... SwingBuilder is passionate, knowledgeable, sharing and just plain good.