Wanting to win but not really trying...or something like that

[kcostello]

Just looking for some thoughts on everyone's part...

DD of the coach of the opposing team is pitching. She starts with her foot on the plate and then takes a step back to do her load and her pitch. This is like rec league C ball and while I know it is illegal, I let the first batter go....I cannot remember if she got on or struck out and if she struck out it was on the coach pitch portion.

At this point I try to politely, although publicly point out to the opposing coach that his DD should not be stepping backwards and that makes it an illegal pitch. Again, I was not looking for a call from an ump, just trying to let him know - from my perspective he could deal with it then or later...whatever.

So rather than acknowledging it, he says oh no completely legal, she just has to start with both feet on the plate....and well in a rather snarky I know everything kind of way.

I replied No she cannot but whatever, you can check on it later...and well he said some other things...not bad, just in a STFU kind of tone.

So later I was umping a different game and one of his assistant coaches was there and I mentioned it to him and he said well someone told us that was ok. The fun part about this is that I have (note I am the league VP also) had similar conversations with this same head coach and his assistants and gotten the response, well someone, and they never say who, told us it was ok to do that. I again politely said, he needs to read the rule book on pitching rather than just have someone say it is ok, since it clearly says she cannot step backwards in the rulebook.

So my question to you all, and I think I should have done this, if I was not intending to have an ump make an illegal pitch call, should I have just waited until the inning was over and then bring it up to the other coach? He may have been upset because he thought I was trying to frustrate his daughter, but I actually like his daughter and his wife...just not him so much.

Any thoughts?

 

[BrianMonk]

In Fed (H.S.) if I understand what you're describing, she is likely legal. In most other orgs, she's not legal so it depends on what rule set you are using.

Anymore, I've come to the conclusion it's seems best to not concern myself with the opposing pitcher at all. There really isn't any uniformity with regards to what is called an illegal pitch and what is not. Some umpires are completely oblivious, others enforce it to the letter of the book and then you'll get selective enforcement of certain rules by umpires. That doesn't even get into opinions - which of course - the umpires opinion is all that matters.

Coaching a 15u (local thing) rec game the other night and my resident expert, know-it-all, is in her own little softball world player, tells me the opposing pitcher - who is warming up - is pitching illegal. I tell her I'll let the umpires worry about it, that's their job. She then tells me it's my job to let the umpires know. And what does she do when she's up...K's.

She got so wrapped up in analyzing the pitcher she forgot that her primary goal was to hit the yellow ball coming at her.

 

[kcostello]

We were using ASA rules and it was illegal. And on one level I really did not care...her pitching needed work in general and my intent when I said it was just to let her dad/coach know that it was an improper move that he needed to work on her with...not looking for anything in the game. I would rather see everyone on all of our teams play hard, play well and have fun rather then get caught up in rule details.

But there are those coaches that the goal is to win and with whatever it takes. Just like this particular head coach is very adept at getting in the way of balls hit up the middle when he is doing coach pitch. He always just avoids the ball but makes the pitcher run around him to get to it consistently....lol It is frustrating to me because I can see the frustration in the eyes of the pitcher also.

But that is also umpire judgement...and Oh would that be a doozy if some umpire called interference on him...lol...actually that would be fun.

Thanks for the response. I think I just need to keep working on teaching the girls how to play and how to have fun....and let the umpires worry about the other stuff as you said.

And I need to work better at letting some of this float.

 

[KevinC]

I would wait until the end of the game (or at least until the girl was done pitching for the game) before bringing it up. Otherwise it looks like you are trying to get the umpire to call it or rattle the pitcher.

It's just too bad the guy won't check the rule book to see if you are correct. Maybe when his DD is older and starts getting called for IPs he'll remember you tried to her out and buy you a beer, but I doubt it.

 

[Axe]

You could talk to the umpire on the side and see if blue is willing to go to the coach either between innings or after the game and talk to him as a "heads up" or "teaching moment". In 10U Rec we encourage our umpires to do this if they see a need, generally not in the middle of an inning or in a way that will rattle the player.

 

[quincy]

If there are coaches on the field the players are pretty young and are still leaning, I would have not said anything or waited until after the game was over and said something in private to only the HC.

My niece is allowed to do this in her league so my DD started to it, trying to stop her during a game did not work out well. HC of opposing Team very politely told me after she was done pitching that if she wanted to pitch in the future I should try to break her of the habit, I know couldn’t stop her.

It’s unfortunate that they do not understand the rule but do not take it out on the players.

 

[CoogansBluff]

If there are coaches on the field the players are pretty young and are still leaning, I would have not said anything or waited until after the game was over and said something in private to only the HC.

You could talk to the umpire on the side and see if blue is willing to go to the coach either between innings or after the game and talk to him as a "heads up" or "teaching moment". In 10U Rec we encourage our umpires to do this if they see a need, generally not in the middle of an inning or in a way that will rattle the player.

Agree.

If you ''publicly point out'' to the other coach that he doesn't know the rules, as you state, then you are showing him up, imo. His reaction was to be expected. And if you have other issues with this coach (his gamesmanship, etc.), then some might question whether you really were trying to help him. If it were me, I'd go to the umpire, or bring it up with the coach after the game, perhaps on another day.

 

[David Carter]

This happened at the beginning of our season as well, in my book you should try to get the umpire to do the teaching thing.

She probably does not have confidence in her coach now that she realizes she was taught wrong and getting help from the opposing coach does not make her feel comfortable either. We have a great crew of umpires and they are always willing to help the girls out then once they have done the best they can we go back to the game. During the game the ump usually does not call the IP if she lapses back into old habits but usually between innings keeps giving tips and encouraging then reminds the coach at the end of game that it is their responsibility to teach correctly and she need to correct things before next game. Granted in our situation none of these games were competitive given the other teams obvious problems so maybe if it was a close game it would have been a bigger deal.

Obviously we are talking very poor rec league type environment but it was 12U which is a little puzzling.

 

[kcostello]

Thanks everyone...

Looking back, yeah I should have just let it go until after the inning. I was not really interested in trying to get the umpires involved and they rarely call anything an illegal pitch...lol...I had pointed out to one ump in the past that another pitcher started with her stride foot off the pitcher's plate (FYI, we have no local rules that do anything to change what an is or is not an illegal pitch, we follow what is in the ASA rulebook). She said she basically was not going to call it since it would open up a whole slew of other issues she did not want to deal with.

Thanks again and I will be more diplomatic in the future.

 

[SoftSocDad]

Just looking for some thoughts on everyone's part...

DD of the coach of the opposing team is pitching. She starts with her foot on the plate and then takes a step back to do her load and her pitch. This is like rec league C ball and while I know it is illegal, I let the first batter go....I cannot remember if she got on or struck out and if she struck out it was on the coach pitch portion.

At this point I try to politely, although publicly point out to the opposing coach that his DD should not be stepping backwards and that makes it an illegal pitch. Again, I was not looking for a call from an ump, just trying to let him know - from my perspective he could deal with it then or later...whatever.

So rather than acknowledging it, he says oh no completely legal, she just has to start with both feet on the plate....and well in a rather snarky I know everything kind of way.

I replied No she cannot but whatever, you can check on it later...and well he said some other things...not bad, just in a STFU kind of tone.

So later I was umping a different game and one of his assistant coaches was there and I mentioned it to him and he said well someone told us that was ok. The fun part about this is that I have (note I am the league VP also) had similar conversations with this same head coach and his assistants and gotten the response, well someone, and they never say who, told us it was ok to do that. I again politely said, he needs to read the rule book on pitching rather than just have someone say it is ok, since it clearly says she cannot step backwards in the rulebook.

So my question to you all, and I think I should have done this, if I was not intending to have an ump make an illegal pitch call, should I have just waited until the inning was over and then bring it up to the other coach? He may have been upset because he thought I was trying to frustrate his daughter, but I actually like his daughter and his wife...just not him so much.

Any thoughts?

Thanks everyone...

Looking back, yeah I should have just let it go until after the inning. I was not really interested in trying to get the umpires involved and they rarely call anything an illegal pitch...lol...I had pointed out to one ump in the past that another pitcher started with her stride foot off the pitcher's plate (FYI, we have no local rules that do anything to change what an is or is not an illegal pitch, we follow what is in the ASA rulebook). She said she basically was not going to call it since it would open up a whole slew of other issues she did not want to deal with.

Thanks again and I will be more diplomatic in the future.

Isn't coach pitch 8u? IPs in 8u??

I'm trying to figure out why you think anything you did in this instance was correct.