USSSA testing fieling masks....

[Comp]

Just another way for USSSA to make a buck.

Yep, like their one and only approved bat warmer. Every other association has banned any means of artificially heating a bat, but in USSSA it is acceptable as long as it is their approved warmer. Wonder how much that company paid to be the only approved supplier?

 

[Bob516]

Just another way for USSSA to make a buck.

Would you object if an organization like NOCSAE, National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment, certified fielder's masks, and USSSA had no involvement in the whole process?

 

[riseball]

Would you object if an organization like NOCSAE, National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment, certified fielder's masks, and USSSA had no involvement in the whole process?

Did not object to USSSA doing it. They are not a charity and if they can get money from RIP-IT and others to play in their sandbox then why not? Fielding masks have been around for a long time. There is a reason NOCSAE has not gotten involved. There are no standards and developing them for what is not a trivial process. Fielding masks are a niche market and I doubt that it would make any business sense.

 

[Bob516]

Did not object to USSSA doing it. They are not a charity and if they can get money from RIP-IT and others to play in their sandbox then why not? Fielding masks have been around for a long time. There is a reason NOCSAE has not gotten involved. There are no standards and developing them for what is not a trivial process. Fielding masks are a niche market and I doubt that it would make any business sense.

NOCSAE is a non-profit organization. From what I can figure from their website, they fund research. I wonder if they have not received research grant proposals for studying fielder's masks.

 

[marriard]

NOCSAE is a non-profit organization. From what I can figure from their website, they fund research. I wonder if they have not received research grant proposals for studying fielder's masks.

It was reported that NOCSAE have previously said they wont because the fielders masks do not protect the side of the head.

From an article in 2015:
"That decision, according to NFHS Director of Sports and Officials Theresia Wynns, is based in part on the current mask’s inability to protect a fielder’s entire head and, therefore, become certified by the National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment (NOCSAE).

“We had some discussion last year about head and face protection for infielders, and it was a prolonged discussion,” Wynns said. “We talked to (NOCSAE) a number of times and the reason there is not a standard for the standalone mask is that while the mask provides some protection, the lower part of the face and the side of the face are still not protected, based on their testing. We’ve looked at a couple of masks and done some tests on them, and we saw that they did not fully protect the players.”


This appears to contradict most other testing NOCSAE does however especially when you consider baseball helmets are not required to protect the face at all and I believe they have been involved in testing rigid pitchers baseball caps as well. It also makes no sense.

 

[Bob516]

This appears to contradict most other testing NOCSAE does however especially when you consider baseball helmets are not required to protect the face at all and I believe they have been involved in testing rigid pitchers baseball caps as well. It also makes no sense.

Thanks for the info, didn't know about that decision.

You are absolutely right, makes no sense.

 

[YOCOACH]

WARNING***** RANT COMING

The problem as I see it is that ALL of the ABC orgs are jumping into the making more money any way they can. For the most part, a majority have accepted, or at least use the USA bat standards as far as testing goes. The exception is USSSA and a handful of other, smaller sanctioning bodies that don't have the draw in order to have bat standards at all. Because the USSSA is so large, they do have their own. Now you have bat manufacturers that have to produce two different barrels to meet a majority of the tourney standards and another for them to be the hottest for the USSSA standards. IMO, this is BS and the only way to stop it is to pass along how the USSSA is in it only for the money to your local state discussion boards and promote a boycott of USSSA tourneys and other sanctioning bodies that adhere to their standards. USSSA is trying hard to take back their place as a national player in the SB world. I can tell you, for years, they have been a joke around this state for decades. They were nothing but a bunch of rec all-star teams trying to say they compete at a national gold level but came nowhere close to it since the competition is against other rec all-star teams. Recently, with the push from their national org, they've actually gotten much better competition-wise although not up to USA and PGF standards in my state. I guarantee, if many people in my state had to shell out an additional $350 bucks for a bat just to compete in a USSSA tourney, they would forego that tournament and look for another. I'm facing that situation right now since a lot of my players now have the new Ghost. My team will not be playing any USSSA tournaments this year due to that fact and we played 5 of them last year although they were out of state since the competition in the neighboring state in USSSA is much better since it's has a far stronger presence over there. I don't care if it's a $350 bat or a $30 fielders mask, my players and their families are already paying enough to play TB. I'm not going to force them to pay more just to play another sanction that's in it solely to make more money (although that can be said for all of them). If USSSA was truly in it for the players, just like many of us coaches are, then they would bring their standards for everything they "approved" more in-line with everyone else instead of trying to make a buck off of every little thing. Pretty soon, you'll see everyone of those sanctions only accept their own insurance no matter the venue or tournament. NSA and PGF are already doing it in some circumstances. I don't know about you, but for the most part, I've had enough. I decided to only play USA tourneys this year and screw every other sanction. Let them make money off of the rest of the dumb#$$^$ that are willing to make their parents pay more to play in several different sanctions and force them to purchase extra "approved" bats and other equipment to play in them.

RANT OVER...

That said, I feel someone needs to lead the charge in at least looking at the various masks, testing them, and approving them; especially since they're not mandated. Once mandated, that would become an entirely different rant on my part

 

[riseball]

NOCSAE is a non-profit organization. From what I can figure from their website, they fund research. I wonder if they have not received research grant proposals for studying fielder's masks.

A non-profit is still a business and despite the moniker must make money to remain viable. Regardless it is hard to make a business case for developing standards and playing in such a small market.

 

[Bob516]

A non-profit is still a business and despite the moniker must make money to remain viable. Regardless it is hard to make a business case for developing standards and playing in such a small market.

I agree with the issue of small market situations.

Of course a non-profit has to have money to continue operating, I have worked for a non-profit which needed to raise money through charitable donations for operating expenses. I would love to know if NOCSAE is a 501(c)(3), or if it falls within one of the other 501(c) categories.

 

[marriard]

WARNING***** RANT COMING
USSSA Rant
RANT OVER...

I am not certain what state you are in, Yocoach but if I had to guess it would be California where 1) USSSA right now is rec and low level focused and 2) USSSA doesn't care much about California right now because the rest of the country is wide open for them to conquer and they feel California will be last - so they are happy to just have a foothold there. As you said,cross a state line and suddenly USSSA competition gets harder.

Frankly I would rather USSSA be in charge of softball in the USA over ASA/USA Softball or the niche PGF or any of the other smaller orgs. Locally ASA is terribly organized and there is not that many tournaments under their sanction - but we play qualifiers because of nationals and because so is every other top team locally - but they all would happily abandon it for a better option. Nationally ASA has done little to keep up with changes in the game and now they have their favorite old toy back with the Olympics, they have once again gone back to their old habits believing they can force people to follow (and some will).

USSSA has better website (USA Softball's website is a total joke), better organization, and better... well apart for top level competition weekly, better everything else. They also have huge financial power which they are willing to flex. It may be turf fields, but USSSA has spent most of $100m on their new 16 field stadium just outside Orlando opening in a few weeks. It is a massive investment in softball for them. Hell, I was skeptical of the whole USA Elite thing and that has just exploded fast - it isn't ASA Nationals yet, but considering it came from nothing just a few years ago it is really impressive. Add in building from the younger age groups and up they are setting themselves up well.

ASA/USA Softball is going to wake up one day and realize they have been run over and they are simply not equipped to compete. It is gong to be interesting.