Update-my-15-yo-dd-wanting-improve

[bobbyb]

Thought I would update while I had a chance. Been a very busy year again.
This is an update from this previous thread last november. my-15-yo-dd-wanting-improve-off-season

After seeing bucketdad97 post about changing at a certain age I thought i would post a progression from my DD years too...to show change over the last 3 years.

#1 and #3 was 13-14 years old. #1 and #3 was the first full off season we did and got serious about it. After #3...it was during the season that I ran across this forum and stopped telling her to make "power elbow" and "close the hips". As you can see she wasn't real good at power elbow but i was sure trying to coach it into her. lol

#2 I left out cause it was only a few weeks before #3 and the only difference is her momentum made her step forward after the pitch.

#4 is 15 and when we ask for help on this forum to gain speed last year. We did work on shortening stride, staying open, slotting elbow better and contracting...and it all was very helpful.

#5 is current. She turned 16 this year. Has a year of working on the suggestions that were given. She is slotting elbow better, arm whip is better and staying open better IMO. She HAD been "contracting" better and pushing off better. She had a usable fastball, rise, screwball, drop and curve/drop curve. Change up gets too hot and it wasn't very usable most of the year...it was more off speed than change up.

One problem she has... is that June/July are busy with tournaments... and HS does a Weds night league during that time with a Tuesday practice too. So with rest...she loses alot of practice time then and bad habits start to show up. Then they go right into HS ball in August and practice is lacking (if you have rest days) when games start. So we progress off season and first half of year... and revert some during last half. Haven't found a solution for this yet.

This year it was the push off and pop up again at the end of the pitch... that she fell back to. Also she was leaving the ball in the glove on back swing like Hillhouse... the first half of the season..then she started swinging the arm back again (which doesn't matter to me). She never did go back to bending during prelaunch though.

Something else strange this HS season....she also changed from a knuckle curve to a straight finger curve (she doesn't know why or even when). It creates a problem in that when she misses the curve...she will roll her wrist creating... a fat pitch that is right down the middle with a straight finger curve. With a knuckle curve...when she missed the curve it became a very good drop ball.

She did hit her goal of 57 mph...yet she stays 54-56 most of the time on her fastball, rise, screw. So our new goal is 60 mph...hoping she will become steady in upper 50's. Both coaches (TB and HS) brought up that she will occasionally pick up 2-3 mph and wish she would do that every game. I just tell them if she keeps improving maybe she will next year! lol

Was a very good year for her and she won some HS honors...which was just great for her...and she seems even more motivated this year...and she has always been a worker. Thank you ALL for your input last year and your help.

We are open for any comments or other suggestions/comments for this off season.

 

[nanotech14]

It looks like in #5 she is turning her foot a little instead of lunching stright forward of the pitchers rubber.It also looks like she is draging of the side her foot it is like draging a anchor.She needs to get uo on her toe,my dd is working on getting on her toe too.I have been having her pitch in her socks,so she can feel it better.I thinks she looks pretty good though.

 

[gvm]

are there any video's of the stork drill?

 

[bobbyb]

nano..TY. She is definitely turning foot out prior to launch...A LOT. This is on our off season to do list. Now that we will be going inside...will check what she does with the drag foot and how much she lays it over indoors.

screwball...this is a fast ball..not a curve. I see why you would wonder... with the post release body movement though. The post release pop up...is a biggy to me. I really didn't think it mattered much last year...but now...I think that front side resistant and not popping up... is where those extra mph come that the coaches see when she hits her fastest pitches. She had this down pretty good earlier in the season and is a major thing i will stress in off season practice.

On the grip...she has small hands and the knuckle curve gets her more spin. Its the wrist action that she will miss at times throwing a curve and what happens is the wrist will roll over... rather than cut under. She gets a very good drop spin on it when she misses on the curve when it was a knuckle grip. With straight fingered curve when she accidentally rolls wrist while throwing the curve...the ball has a weak drop spin that doesn't get any drop action. If that makes sense.

I will check that on the change up...we could of used it this year and need a good one...which she use to have!

 

[gvm]

thank you for the video screwball !!!

 

[vdubya]

. She is definitely turning foot out prior to launch...A LOT. This is on our off season to do list. Now that we will be going inside...will check what she does with the drag foot and how much she lays it over indoors.

....

I will check that on the change up...we could of used it this year and need a good one...which she use to have!

Bobby,
If you go to the model pitchers thread, you will see that the foot turning prior to launch is common to a majority of the best pitchers. See the most recent three clips and watch how Ueno and Cat turn their foot too. Before you nit pick your DD about it, consider what she stands to gain and what she stands to lose by being hung up on a sprinter start. She is pitching, not sprinting, and it appears she is turning her foot like a great many awesome athletes do when they pitch...as opposed to when they sprint. Would Cat and Ueno gain mph if they kept their foot facing directly towards the plate? If so then why don't they do it??


I think that they are exceptional athletes. Some would argue that they can get away with a 'flaw' such as this because they are exceptional, while the rest of the world needs to 'do it correctly.' This may be valid. Maybe though, these exceptional athletes naturally do what one needs to do in order to be the best. THEY turn their foot just before pushing off (many times), but we want to train that out of our DD's for some reason. Maybe Cat and Ueno, like a great contributor from the mens side here, have 'tried it all' over their careers in order to figure out what works best. Maybe they are in fact doing 'what works the best' for that particular athlete. I give them credit and say that this is likely the case.

Look at your clips...in #1 and #3, DD's toe is straight forward when she pushes. She then improves greatly over a couple of years. Part of the equation now is that her foot turns prior to pushing. BIG DEAL! Your DD looks like a natural athlete. It is possible that her body 'gets it' and is doing what it needs to do with regard to that push foot. She looks like many of the best in this regard, so I just question the return on investment of coaching this bit of natural athleticism out of her. Are you positive she would gain speed? Are you positive she wouldn't actually lose speed? She looks like an athlete who is getting it! It is possible to overcoach a naturally athletic kid. (said as a caution, not a criticism)

Plenty will come on here and offer a different opinion in rebuttal. They will have more credentials than me. Do notice though that some of the better minds on this forum don't harp on this 'sprinter start' stuff. Other great ones do. I'd just offer that as a parent, use your head too. Choose your battles and ask what, if anything, you really stand to gain by 'correcting' this. I'm thinking this is more style than absolute. The model pitchers thread seems to support this.

A better battle would be to focus on mastering that changeup IMO.

Best wishes and good luck from an internet idiot with a day off. I am NOT a PC!

 

[lhowser]

bobbyb,

That is some fantastic improvement in a short period of time. Really GREAT. I've got to agree with vdubya a little bit. At this point make sure you are sure about the benefits before making much of a change. It sounds like control and spins are coming together nicely. I coach a 17yo now (I coach the team and I've helped a with her pitching...gotten her away from her pitching coach...she coaches herself and is improving dramatically). She just made a huge jump since summer from game speeds in the upper 50's to cruising (as the say) in the 62-64 range. She stands 5'- 2 1/2"Right now she is hitting her spots and is starting to blow it past people. Differences...they seem minor.

1. Effort...especially on the downside of the circle is most obvious.

2. A little firmer on the front side

3. A quieter shoulder (Less push)and more IR with a focus on forearm and wrist and fingers

So it can happen

Speaking of this player if anyone out there knows a D1 or D2 school looking for a great player this one (I am talking about) is a senior and has slipped through the cracks. Her improvement is amazing and unfortunately parents and coach didn't market her correctly. Pitches and plays killer 1st, 3rd and OF. Above average stick and speed and the smartest player I have had the pleasure of coaching. can pitch a ton of innings and is great under pressure (smiles).

 

[bobbyb]

vdubya...TY. I will definitely give that some consideration and am glad you brought it up. She was doing a more straight push off during the first half of the season with no problems and have no idea to "why" she would turn it more out when games increase/practice decreases. I will have to give this some thought...maybe even see if i can measure anything about it.

lhowser...TY too. Congrats to the young lady! I hope she is able to work something out with college.
What did she and/or you ...think the main improvement with her was?...as far as...was there anything special about her workout/training/routine... that seemed to be a difference maker?

I am with you on down swing effort, stronger front side. I would have to say that arm rotation with whip and stronger front side... for the whip...is what we have as our main priority right now.

Any recommendations on getting a "quieter shoulder"? You stating it as a "push" gets me thunkin.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

It looks like in #5 she is turning her foot a little instead of lunching stright forward of the pitchers rubber.It also looks like she is draging of the side her foot it is like draging a anchor.She needs to get uo on her toe,my dd is working on getting on her toe too.I have been having her pitch in her socks,so she can feel it better.I thinks she looks pretty good though.

Cat ... from 2008 Olympic Games ... mirrored so as to reference from a right hand pitcher's perspective .....