There is a TD that needs to not work any more tournaments. To say an umpire should lie about something is ridiculous. The umpire messed up and they need to do what they can to rectify the situation with as little damage as possible to both teams. The defense did not put the batter out so I would agree that leaving her on 1st is the most equitable solution to the situation.
Uncaught 3rd Strike
- Thread starter SoGASoftball
- Start date
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There is a TD that needs to not work any more tournaments. To say an umpire should lie about something is ridiculous. The umpire messed up and they need to do what they can to rectify the situation with as little damage as possible to both teams. The defense did not put the batter out so I would agree that leaving her on 1st is the most equitable solution to the situation.
Once the umpire makes the "out" call that should have killed the play. Wrong or not he effectively ended the play and told the defense it was dead. Had the mistake happened in the opposite direction (the ball didn't touch the ground but he failed to call the batter out) it would be much easier to correct. This is like a fair ball being called foul and allowing a runner to keep running, then penalizing the defense for not making a play.
- Jun 22, 2008
- 3,438
- 48
Absolutely. Only like to add that the fact the umpire used the word "out" does not end the discussion. Don't know of many catchers who wouldn't know the ball hit the ground. Smart move by the BR to advance.
A different situation but one I have seen; ground ball to second, she tosses it to first, first baseman gets it in her glove, ump calls out at the same time 1st baseman drops the ball. Is the girl out? Ump called out is the play over?
- Jun 22, 2008
- 3,438
- 48
This would have been a bad original call that was made too quick by the umpire. If s/he has any integrity and realizes the error, an immediate change of the call will take place and the umpire takes reasonable heat for the mistake.
In the umpire world, that is referred to as an "Out.....Safe......shirt!" call
- Aug 26, 2015
- 590
- 16
If you didn't catch the 3rd strike, you tag or throw. Period. Leave no doubt. The ump can figure it out AFTER the tag or throw. That would resolve the whole thing. Had she thrown to the base and the plate ump then threw up his hands to indicate time and that the runner was already out, no harm no foul. She was out both ways. Otherwise, you leave it in the ump's hands. Never leave it in the umps hands when you can just tag or throw.
DD, who is a catcher, has a coach who was a catcher in college and says umpires are blind morons. Never leave it up to them. ALWAYS make the call an obvious one so they can’t screw it up, and even then they still do sometimes. Because the HP umpire’s view of the ball is obscured by the catcher, some will assume that the catcher caught it and some will assume that the ball hit the dirt. Since the catcher can’t tell which type of umpire is behind her, she should ALWAYS tag or throw to 1.
Now I’m not saying that I agree with her coach about umpires, but telling the team that has caused them to work harder and sure has reduced the number of close/questionable calls. And that’s fine by me.
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Now I’m not saying that I agree with her coach about umpires, but telling the team that has caused them to work harder and sure has reduced the number of close/questionable calls. And that’s fine by me.
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Regarding having the catcher throw regardless - it might just be experience but say a runner is on 1st so D3S doesn't even apply. Catcher drops 3rd strike and batter runs because A - they've been told to run on 3rd strike if it hits the ground always and B - catcher throws to 1st because they've been told to throw to 1st if it hits the ground.
This usually results in the runner on 1st stealing 2nd. Catcher may even know that that D3S doesn't apply but because the batter runs, they throw.
Should the runner get forced back to 1st or does it still just count as a steal?
This usually results in the runner on 1st stealing 2nd. Catcher may even know that that D3S doesn't apply but because the batter runs, they throw.
Should the runner get forced back to 1st or does it still just count as a steal?
Catcher should know the rules and throw the runner out at 2nd.
The defense is responsible for knowing the situation and making the appropriate play. Just as I indicated earlier, basically the same thing in the original post. The catcher should know they didn't catch the ball and make the appropriate play regardless of the umpire calling an out that was not. In your situation where 1st base is occupied with less than 2 outs, the catcher should know a throw or tag is not needed. If they do throw the ball and air mail it, the runner steals etc it is simply a live ball.
