Umps not knowing rules

[NJSwampdragons]

That looks legal. My question is, what was it that threw off her timing? If she just stepped on the plate with her pitching hand at her side, that would have been "presenting the ball" (still not rule book language, but I presume would satisfy the umpire) then put her hand behind her back to take the signal she is right where she was.

Ump didn’t want her hand behind her back, so she had to start it in front of her. Said she was hiding the ball.

I’m sure if she had practice time it wouldn’t be an issue, but she started that to take signs and then really liked it.

Tell a 10 year old you can’t use your normal motion mid game, it’s a tough adjustment.

 

[EdLovrich]

Ump didn’t want her hand behind her back

I can understand your frustration and hers. Hard to address this as a spectator and I think the HC should have been the one out there getting a clarification of the ruling with the umpire and insisting he get with his partner since it was a rules question not a judgment.

You are actually lucky you got as far as you did, as an umpire I am not going to discuss ANYTHING with the crowd.

 

[STRIKE3]

She does all that.

@NJSwampdragons ...... just my thoughts on the call. I am sorry she hurt herself so that is above everything else not good.

With that said, I would likely agree with the ump's call depending on what org yall are playing with. I had to go back and confirm the rules but she IMHO looks like she is quick pitching. Truth be told.... I love a good quick pitch and I am sure this was not her intention at all but I still love it!!

Anyway, and again, depending on the org.....she needs to keep the ball in the glove AT LEAST for 1 second and not more than 10 seconds which would be forever.

Below is a snippet that I pulled up:

This also means after the pitcher takes a signal off the pitcher’s plate, they must step on the pitcher’s plate with the hands motionless for enough time to take a signal or simulate taking a signal. The pitcher then must bring their hands together for not less than one second and not more than 10 seconds, (Rule 6A, Section 1E). This could be a very short period and meets the definition of talking a signal if the hands are motionless.

Could be outdated or maybe something has changed but this is what we always follow.

FYI - youngest DD got called for 2 illegal pitches this past week for the very same reason!!! I agreed with the ump!!

S3

 

[EdLovrich]

The pitcher then must bring their hands together for not less than one second and not more than 10 seconds, (Rule 6A, Section 1E).

Not sure which code or year this is from but it IS NOT the current rule AFAIK in any. In all codes I can see the P needs to take the signal, or simulate taking the signal PRIOR TO her hands coming together. then bring her hands together. No minimum time nor a pause are required. Max time together varies from 5 sec (NCAA) to 10 sec (USSSA, NFHS) before hands must separate to signify beginning of the pitch itself.

A 'quick pitch' is defined as being intended to catch the batter off-balance. In the posted video clip, the batter is clearly in position to bat and is ready for the P to start her delivery.

 

[STRIKE3]

Not sure which code or year this is from but it IS NOT the current rule AFAIK in any. In all codes I can see the P needs to take the signal, or simulate taking the signal PRIOR TO her hands coming together. then bring her hands together. No minimum time nor a pause are required. Max time together varies from 5 sec (NCAA) to 10 sec (USSSA, NFHS) before hands must separate to signify beginning of the pitch itself.

A 'quick pitch' is defined as being intended to catch the batter off-balance. In the posted video clip, the batter is clearly in position to bat and is ready for the P to start her delivery.

USA Softball is where it is from. Pretty big org IMHO.

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Softball/News/2019/April/12/April-Plays-Clarifications-and-Plays

 

[EdLovrich]

It is a big org, but look at the date, that ruling is from 2 years ago.

 

[STRIKE3]

It is a big org, but look at the date, that ruling is from 2 years ago.

It was the rule for many years. Did it change? If so, can you please post their updated rule on this? That would be a fairly big deal in my opinion and likely one that I am not familiar with but would like to be.

 

[EdLovrich]

I did find this, an interpretation in USA softball from 2020

Rule 6A, Section 1E: The pitcher shall bring their hands together for not less than one second and not more than 10 seconds before releasing the ball. A backward step may be taken before, simultaneous with or after the hands are brought together. The pivot foot must remain in contact with the pitcher’s plate at all times prior to the forward step.

Notice, there is nothing about a pause or stop in the movement of hands. Does the DD in the video clip have her hands together for less than 1 sec? Perhaps, debatable. The umpire did not use that as his rationale, however, and we still do not know what rule book the DD is playing under. I will state here however, I erred when I said none of the major rule books required a minimum amount of time hands to remain toigether.

 

[EdLovrich]

Unfortunately, trying to find a readable copy of USA softball rulebook online is difficult at best. They seem to only post changes without knowing what the base edition is. If anyone knows where a combined, current edition of the USA rule book can be found online, I, for one, would appreciate a link.

 

[STRIKE3]

Yes. She does not have it together for over a second. That is why the umpire called it. I haven't looked at other rule books in awhile but pretty confident in saying it is most likely in all of them.

When in doubt, I always go back to my ole standby and that is......do college pitchers do this? I am fairly confident that they put the ball in the glove for at least a second.