Trying to convince the player/parent change is good.

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NBECoach

Learning everyday
Aug 9, 2018
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We have Fall Ball starting this weekend and our roster consists of 14 members of the HS Varsity/JV. All of the players are just coming off the TB season so they still are in softball mode. This week we had a couple of practices which I attended. The HS staff is not allowed to coach HS players in our area after July 31 until the season starts again in March.

So I am watching the players hitting soft toss and a couple of the JV players seemed to be swinging downward which I had not noticed during last HS season. So I went over the father of one of the players and mentioned what I was seeing. He told me that the TB coach wants his DD to swing downward since the ball is coming in on an upward plane. I have tried to explain that seldom do HS pitchers throw true rise balls and even if they do level swings are still the way to go. I have watched hours and hours of elite college hitters swings and even on rise balls they are all level to slightly upward swings. I even drew this in the dirt so he could see the differences and how downward swinging limits DD’s ability to keep the bat in the zone as long as possible. The father and his DD were insistent that the TB coach’s philosophy had worked well all summer. I’d like to get his definition of well after what I saw.

This player is limiting her success by this swing and I foresee a year of mostly popups and weak ground balls. I know that I can help her by correcting the swing, but I after the discussion I had with the father and DD it seems like they want no part of changing. She’s a good defensive player so I could go the DP/Flex route but she’s also a good bunter and one of the fastest players on the team.

I’m trying to do what is best for the player and am open to suggestions on what to do next.
 
Nov 18, 2015
1,585
113
Do you want the “lead a horse to water” quote, or something more substantial?

If you’re the HS HC, then a call to the TB coach may not be out of line - “hey, how did ______ do this summer - anything she had success / trouble with that I could reinforce / work with her on?”

At this point - the player has to realize their career is in their own hands - if they can’t hit or field, they shouldn’t expect much playing time. But then again, if they still think swinging down is effective, than Dad may already have plugged her into that leadoff spot, b/c what that .150 OBP really shows is how close she was to reaching base all those times...


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May 17, 2012
2,803
113
I’m trying to do what is best for the player and am open to suggestions on what to do next.

Before you try and change anyone's swing you should get a better understanding of the physics of hitting and pitching.

No pitch rises in baseball or softball. Period. Not even the rise-ball. Gravity wins every time. Make sure you really understand this.

Once you have established the above have the player take some swings with a Zepp sensor (or something similar) to show the players bat path.

Discuss launch angle and the role of the hands.
 
Last edited:
Jun 7, 2016
275
43
This is a difficult situation. Just talked to DD yesterday about this as she ponders going to college camps in the fall. In her case, she has invested a great deal of time/energy learning to pitch (from a highly qualified coach). So you go to a camp, meet a pitching "coach" and are instructed to pitch in a completely different manner than that in which you have been previously instructed. My advice was to listen repectfully, try to do what they say then we will evaluate for outcome. In the end, to me, it hinges on the credibility of the coach (their experience, knowledge and success with current players), but that takes time to evaluate.
In this case, it may be best to show the player/parent those students that are swinging level, and the success they are having and over time their desire to succeed will overcome their reticence to change.
 

NBECoach

Learning everyday
Aug 9, 2018
408
63
I am the JV HC so it is actually my task to teach and prepare these players for the next level (Varsity and possibly beyond). Thus I feel a responsibility for making sure their basic skill set allows them to be competitive if not succeed when they get promoted. To that end I spend a great deal of time watching videos of elite college hitters and they all swing level or slightly up so I believe I'm on the right path.

I talked to the Varsity HC about this and was told to let the player do it their way during fall ball and if/when they struggle then we suggest they make changes which seems to be a logical approach.
 
Oct 14, 2016
77
33
So I am watching the players hitting soft toss and a couple of the JV players seemed to be swinging downward which I had not noticed during last HS season. So I went over the father of one of the players and mentioned what I was seeing. He told me that the TB coach wants his DD to swing downward since the ball is coming in on an upward plane.

I don't think you can get a true read on a swing from soft toss. Especially in what you are talking about.

As for the downward swing, there has to be somewhat of a downward motion to take the barrel from above the shoulder to the belt level. Are you looking at where they are making contact with the ball (depth of contact). Are they touching the ball early as they try to approach the contact point. You may simply be witnessing a timing issue that doesn't require any change in the actual swing mechanic.

I recommend seeing front toss hitting before concluding that swing changes need to be made.
 
Nov 18, 2015
1,585
113
I don't think you can get a true read on a swing from soft toss. Especially in what you are talking about.

And to add - side toss may be harder for a coach than front toss. I’m not nearly as consistent as I’d like to be - and Based on what I’ve seen from others, I don’t think other coaches realize when their tosses end up jamming a player. Even though you’re only 3’ away, the different angle / perspective can be hard to find the right “landing spot” for a toss.


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NBECoach

Learning everyday
Aug 9, 2018
408
63
Thanks for the insightful replies. I will try to be more diligent in my observations of hitters and keep on learning that success can come in many forms.
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,131
113
Dallas, Texas
I'm not sure what you mean by level swing either,.

The only pitch that is parallel to the ground at home plate is the riseball. (For female pitchers...male pitchers throw a rise with a slight upward angle at the plate).

All other pitches have a downward trajectory at home plate. So, the bat has to be moving upward in order to be "on the same plane" as the ball.

 

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