Triple of Double??

[VA Chris]

Triple or Double??

Evening Folks-
I am trying to correctly record a hit that one of our players had this weekend. To make matters worse it is my DD! Situation was a runner on 1b with my DD up to bat. My DD hit a towering shot to LF over the outfielder. The ball landed and rolled to the fence. She clearly passed 2nd base before the ball was even at the cut off. The SS Cut off turned and threw home. The runner from 1b was called out at the plate, but my DD was safe on 3b.

In reviewing some scoring advice I found this:
1. Credit a batter with an extra base hit when she reaches a base beyond first base solely because of her hit,
a - if tagged out after over sliding, the batter does not get credit for that base, only the preceding base,
b - if tagged out after over running, the batter does get credit for that base, and
c - if a batter misses a base, she gets credit for only the bases she touched before missing the base.
2. A batter is credited only with the base she would have reached safely had no play on a preceding runner taken place. If she stops, sees another play, then advances, she does not receive credit for that base,
a - a batter never gets credit for a triple if a preceding runner at home is out, or would have been out had no error occurred, and the same applies for no double credit with an out or error at third base, and
b - if a fielder merely holds the ball too long, the batter gets credit for all bases she takes.


If I understand 2a as it is written, this is scored as a double for my daughter with a 6-2 (SS-C) out on the runner from 1b. It was the final out of the 5th inning.

Do I have this right?

 

[Greenmonsters]

Yes. Double with a 7-6-2 put out to end the inning.

 

[ConorMacleod]

As with most scoring, I would of had to see it. Was she only able to take 3rd as a result of the throw to home? Would she of held up at second if the throw was not made? Was the runner from 1st base very slow, while your DD is very fast? Hence, your daughter was going triple all the way? Instead of the throw home, could the cutoff SS have thrown to 3rd for an easy out, or kept your DD at 2nd as a result of the throw to third? The only "right" scoring play on this is whatever the person keeping the scorebook thought at the time of the play, with what they saw happen.

It's all in the scorers judgement. Give her a triple. She hit the ball over the outfielders head to the fence!

 

[Little Angels Softball]

I'm with Conor, here, and I would have also needed to see it.

If the runner on 1B held up (trying to tag up or going part way then holding to see if the ball was going to be caught), then I can see going to scorer's discretion. However, if the runner took off at the hit (which she should have with two outs) and was thrown out at home, the rule is pretty clear and I would score a double with a 7-6-2 PO.

 

[canyonjoe]

I don't see anywhere that says it was the third out? In the end what difference does it make. It's not like they will look at the stats for the Hall of Fame, so go ahead and give your DD a Triple. She deserves it.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Double. It's not a judgment call, IMO. Rules are pretty clear cut on this one.

As far as what difference it makes, that depends on why we're scoring. If it's just to keep the score of the game and to fulfill that obligation during a game, then it probably doesn't matter. But if we're keeping statistics to help the coaching staff assess the hitters, then I don't think we can justify making up our own scoring rules and ''giving'' players things they didn't earn by the rules of scoring.

 

[canyonjoe]

I somewhat disagree. If I'm evaluating I want what I think she would have gotten. It's not like a bunt that gets thrown into right field and saying that's a triple. I understand the rules but something think they don't always accurately reflect evenly on the hitters. If you always hit after a slow or bad runner and they constantly get thrown out at second on clear signals that any normal runner would have made it's hard to just write down fielders choice and take hits away. Or if someone hits 3 fly balls against a team that sucks and they don't touch them, but a normal team would easily catch are they really 3-3.

 

[BadMonkeys]

Based on the info provided I would have score it like Green did. I liken it to a fielder's choice. If you are able to recreate the game from a good scorekeeping record no one would take away anything negative from the hitter. You should see she had a double that was solid because a play was made on the runner at the plate coming around from 2B and you'd see the batter runner advanced on the throw like you'd hope.

 

[VA Chris]

Thanks for all the replies. For clarification some more info from what has been posted:
1) There were 2 outs
2) DD was passing 2nd before the outfield attempted to throw to SS Cut off
3) SS cut off throwing to third would have been late with no out on 3b possible
4) Runner speed did effect the runner being put out at home (most runners would have been safe at home)
5) Score keeping is being done to help Head Coach set line up and track improvement

Thank you for discussing this. I have set it as a double (breaks my heart, she had 3b all day). I have been encouraged to be generous with the score keeping to reward the girls for playing hard. For example if a ball gets by 3b on a play that only a MLB or NCAA player would make a play, I score a hit. However if the same hit is a "routine" play for 12U player, it is an error and no hit.

Appreciate you all keeping me honest!

 

[canyonjoe]

After hearing the other arguments I change to a 2B.

This question got me thinking about score keeping last night. It really hasn't changed in a hundred years. It's original intent was to allow you to recreate the game. At the major league level with hundreds of at bats odd things generally even out, but at small sample sizes little variations can skew the numbers. I was just wondering if anyone had ever seen anything else to evaluate players offensive stats beside BA, OBP,etc. I guess I try to figure out if there is any way to rate at bats on a scale to reward the person who lines out 10 times versus 3 hoppers to the pitcher. Or maybe not count the double off the fence the same a bloop to right that gets lost in the sun. I'm sure they it would lead to even more fighting, but if there was a good system it might help make better decisions. I know in the Majors I would love to see batting stats for the stars against the number 1 and 2 starters from teams. It would be a pretty good indicator of who might hit better in the playoffs.