There is always something you have never seen before...

[marriard]

USSSA tournament and rules.

So base runner is on first...

Pitcher is in the circle with the ball just behind the rubber. She practice pitches from this position (full windmill, glove slap on leg, etc)

Runners view of the pitcher was blocked by where the 1st base is playing/standing and so the runner really only sees the top of the windmill motion and hears the glove slap so believing the ball has been pitched she takes a lead and looks in to see that the ball has actually not been pitched so she returns to first base.

Blue calls runner out for being off the bag. Long and animated discussion happens between coach and umpires but the call stands. I believe this was called incorrectly...

Your call...

 

[Comp]

Sec 1. A legal pitch shall conform to the following:
A. Prior to the pitch, the pitcher shall put both feet on the pitcher’s plate. Part
of the pivot foot must be on top of the pitcher’s plate. The non-pivot foot
must be in contact with the pitcher’s plate. Both feet must be within the
24-inch length of the pitcher’s plate.
The hands must be apart.
The pitcher may not take the pitching position on the pitcher’s plate
without possession of the ball, and the pitcher may not simulate pitching
with or without the ball when near the pitcher’s plate.

 

[eddieq]

Of course, this specific scenario isn't covered by the rules. The pitching rules for USSSA state that the pitcher may not simulate a pitching motion with or without the ball when "near the pitcher's plate". Rule 10.1.O says that the ball is dead when an illegal pitch occurs but no pitch is delivered to the batter. Since the ball is dead, the runner cannot be called out on the LBR.

My call is Illegal pitch, dead ball (on 10.1.O). Ball on the batter. Runner to 2nd.

 

[coach james]

Thats a first?!?!
Seems more like a smile at the runner moment.
How could she be called out if the game was "paused" for the pitcher? If the game wasn't paused then wouldn't that have been considered an illegal pitch?

 

[Umpire]

Of course, this specific scenario isn't covered by the rules. The pitching rules for USSSA state that the pitcher may not simulate a pitching motion with or without the ball when "near the pitcher's plate". Rule 10.1.O says that the ball is dead when an illegal pitch occurs but no pitch is delivered to the batter. Since the ball is dead, the runner cannot be called out on the LBR.

My call is Illegal pitch, dead ball (on 10.1.O). Ball on the batter. Runner to 2nd.

Umm, this scenario is SPECIFICALLY covered in the rules. It's even been quoted... How much more specific can it be then to specifically say that the pitcher can't do it? Do you want it to say that she can't do it "with no runners on base, R1 on 1st, R2 on 2nd, R3 on 3rd, R1 on 1st and R2 on 2nd, R1 on 1st and R3 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd and R3 on 3rd, or R1 on 1st R2 on 2nd and R3 on 3rd?"

We're not talking about an infield fly that only applies in all situations.

 

[eddieq]

Umm, this scenario is SPECIFICALLY covered in the rules. It's even been quoted... How much more specific can it be then to specifically say that the pitcher can't do it? Do you want it to say that she can't do it "with no runners on base, R1 on 1st, R2 on 2nd, R3 on 3rd, R1 on 1st and R2 on 2nd, R1 on 1st and R3 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd and R3 on 3rd, or R1 on 1st R2 on 2nd and R3 on 3rd?"

We're not talking about an infield fly that only applies in all situations.

I actually meant that the specific situation of a simulated pitch followed by a runner leaving the base. Of course, it makes sense that it wouldn't have that play in the rulebook, since as I had noted, the ball is dead at that point anyway so all other action basically didn't happen.

And would I like this specifically covered, either as an example in the rulebook or in the casebook? Sure. Apparently the umpire's in the situation described by the OP ruled it differently than I would have, so one of us is wrong. Assuming that I would have ruled it correctly, even an "effect" note after stating specifically that she can't do it would work. The note could read, non-specifically of course, "Effect: Illegal pitch. Dead ball. Award a ball to the batter and advance any runners one base."

 

[Wheels]

What age was this?

 

[FPump]

USSSA Rule 6
Sec 1. A legal pitch shall conform to the following:
A. Prior to the pitch, the pitcher shall put both feet on the pitcher’s plate. Part
of the pivot foot must be on top of the pitcher’s plate. The non-pivot foot
must be in contact with the pitcher’s plate. Both feet must be within the
24-inch length of the pitcher’s plate.
The hands must be apart.
The pitcher may not take the pitching position on the pitcher’s plate
without possession of the ball, and the pitcher may not simulate pitching
with or without the ball when near the pitcher’s plate.

Comp, added the USSSA Rule# to your cite.

marriard,
Not only should your runner not have been called out, but the pitcher should have been called for an illegal pitch....ball on the batter, and your runner awarded 2nd base. (USSSA Rule 6 Sec.3, A.)

 

[MTR]

But did the pitcher actually simulate a pitch? And just how close is considered "near" the PP?

Was the rule meant to actually address everything that resembles any part of the pitch, or action that really looks like a pitch is being made? I've seen pitchers do this many times at different levels, and never considered it a pitch simulation nor think it could have been.

I have to wonder what this runner and her coach was watching that they did not notice the pitcher not stepping on the PP, not simulating taking a signal and not bringing the hands together?

 

[marriard]

But did the pitcher actually simulate a pitch? And just how close is considered "near" the PP?

Was the rule meant to actually address everything that resembles any part of the pitch, or action that really looks like a pitch is being made? I've seen pitchers do this many times at different levels, and never considered it a pitch simulation nor think it could have been.

I have to wonder what this runner and her coach was watching that they did not notice the pitcher not stepping on the PP, not simulating taking a signal and not bringing the hands together?

The runner is pretty small and her vision of the pitching rubber was blocked by where the 1st base fielder was so really she didn't have direct vision of the pitcher (runner described that she could saw the top of the windmill and the ball but not the actual pitcher). The coach is a non-factor as the runner is going to take a lead on every pitch independent of the coach as they are taught to do.

If a pitcher makes a full windmill motion and basically practice pitches (including her glove slap as this pitcher does) while right behind the pitching rubber as it was in this case, I would have to consider it pitching simulation - especially since the baserunner made a move based on what they could see and hear. There is no doubt that the rule as described in the rule book applies - if it didn't I don't know what would constitute a violation. This wasn't just a pitching slapping the ball into her glove - it was a full motion.

While I agree in most cases you would never likely never make this call, and in most cases I would agree that most practice motions the pitcher makes you would probably not consider 'simulation'. That was one of the reasons I titled this thread "something you have never seen before'. If there hadn't been a baserunner who reacted, even in this case I believe you would be more likely to tell the pitcher or have a quick word to a coach as they went by to 'stop doing that'. However in this situation I would believe you are forced into making the illegal pitch call because of the runner coming off the base clearly because they believed the ball to have been pitched.

Wish I had it on video.