The riseball has been killed

[RubberBiscuit]

Well, you have Riseball's dd and if you care to check her out, Hannah Perryman from UMSL. She's riseball most of the time and it is very hard to hit even when you know it is coming.

And when the batter does not swing is it always called a ball? That's what I see more & more.....

 

[RubberBiscuit]

Hawkins lived on the rise her first two years and since added a couple of pitches to give more looks.

So great segue here => In WI I saw 2 "top-tier" pitchers in my DD's HS year and one lower. The more untouchable one, the riseballer, is at Drake and even though she's done "good" I think she is getting figured out. Meaning that everyone is starting to know what her dominant pitch is (the rise) and that it's better to just wait for the walk and make her throw other pitches for strikes. (allot of what has happened to my DD too). Now the other pitcher of note here is the freshman at Oregon right now. For years I have seen this girl pitch and pitch well but she did not throw the rise (in HS at least) and I don't think it's a part of her standard arsenal now. This girl is like a Chelsea Thomas (MO) fame where her pitch just screamed in dropping. A real stand-out in that regard but not a big K pitcher. And I see now she is tearing it up out there for Oregon (better stats than Hawkins).

The difference has got to be the better coaching on laying off the rise. I really have made a huge shift in my thinking as I used to think I would promote a youth as a riseballer (if it's natural) due to all it's "K-wow" in pre-college years but now if I had to do it all over again (maybe with a grand-DD some day) I think I would not...... Thanks to umpiring with zero upper zone.

 

[riseball]

GEORGIA:
Chelsea Wilkinson..............IP: 67 ABs: 244 HRs: 7 WHIP 0.82
All other Georgia pitchers....IP: 90 ABs: 350 HRs: 4 WHIP 1.17

JMU:
Jailyn Ford....................IP: 69 ABs: 246 HRs: 6 WHIP 0.83
Megan Good..................IP: 84 ABs: 294 HRs: 4 WHIP 0.75

OREGON:
Cheridian Hawkins..........IP: 58 ABs: 207 HRs: 9 WHIP 0.98
Rest of Oregon Pitchers..IP: 93 ABs: 345 HRs: 0 WHIP 0.89

Not quite sure what if any conclusion can be drawn by this. Do riseball pitchers tend to give up more home runs? Yes. But these kind of cherry picked stats are nothing more than trivia. If you look at something more meaningful like WHIP you find that there is no discernible difference.

I think what most fail to understand is that college ball is a totally different environment. Once in conference play you will see a team for 3 games in a row. You better have a staff that can provide more than one look. If you look at the best teams in the country most have at least 1 pitcher that can throw a decent rise. The job of the riseball pitchers is to provide that different look which helps makes the entire staff more productive. Bottom line is the more looks you have over 3 games the better. So there will always be a place for riseball pitcher, dropball pitchers, power pitchers, and spinners. If you have 2 - 4 pitchers all throwing the same you are not going to win many games.

 

[Cannonball]

And when the batter does not swing is it always called a ball? That's what I see more & more.....

A lot of this might be due to the difference in what is called a strike and so, I agree. If the ball can't be considered at the sternum at all in college, it is a ball as opposed to the arm pit for TB. Still, riseball pitchers are racking up a tremendous amount of Ks. At least that is what is happening in the games I see.

 

[corlay]

Also, a common misconception is that a "riseball" ALWAYS flirts with the very top of the zone.
Not true.

Just watched a replay of Georgia vs. Minnesota from 03/06 last night, and just marveled at Wilkinson's "low rise".
She just stymied Gophers hitters with that pitch for most of the game.
And got plenty of backwards-K's with it, and threw surprisingly few "at the chin" riseballs at all.

To Slugger's point, she did give up a 3-run homer in the top of the 7th,
and Georgia lost the game by one run. Can't remember if the HR pitch was a rise or not, but probability says it was.

Overall, the game was a pretty awesome pitcher's duel, if anyone cares to watch that SEC/ESPN replay for themselves...

 

[riseball]

Also, a common misconception is that a "riseball" ALWAYS flirts with the very top of the zone.
Not true.

Just watched a replay of Georgia vs. Minnesota from 03/06 last night, and just marveled at Wilkinson's "low rise".
She just stymied Gophers hitters with that pitch for most of the game.
And got plenty of backwards-K's with it, and threw surprisingly few "at the chin" riseballs at all.

To Slugger's point, she did give up a 3-run homer in the top of the 7th,
and Georgia lost the game by one run. Can't remember if the HR pitch was a rise or not, but probability says it was.

Overall, the game was a pretty awesome pitcher's duel, if anyone cares to watch that SEC/ESPN replay for themselves...

My DD threw the same pitch with great results against Georgia Tech a couple of weeks back. Gave up only 1 hit, a dinger but had quite a few wiffs on the pitch. With the exception of Kentucky, both at the top and bottom of the zone it has been very effective for her this season. Kentucky obviously did their homework and was very good at laying off the pitch when up in the zone.

 

[sluggers]

Do riseball pitchers tend to give up more home runs? Yes. But these kind of cherry picked stats are nothing more than trivia.

Touched a raw nerve, eh?

The stats were quoted to point out that riseball pitchers give up more home runs. That is a long way from trivia.

The question was, "Why are riseball pitchers going out of favor?" not "Can riseball pitchers be effective?"

Riseball pitchers can be very effective. For heaven's sakes, Osterman threw one.

The problem is that parents at lower levels get mesmerized by a pitch. A pitch doesn't make a pitcher good. What makes a pitcher good is the ability to locate her pitches and change speeds.

But, every newbie parent is more interested in her/his kid learning "pitches" rather than doing the long, hard, boring work of developing control.

 

[Cannonball]

Touched a raw nerve, eh?

The stats were quoted to point out that riseball pitchers give up more home runs. That is a long way from trivia.

The question was, "Why are riseball pitchers going out of favor?" not "Can riseball pitchers be effective?"

Riseball pitchers can be very effective. For heaven's sakes, Osterman threw one.

The problem is that parents at lower levels get mesmerized by a pitch. A pitch doesn't make a pitcher good. What makes a pitcher good is the ability to locate her pitches and change speeds.

But, every newbie parent is more interested in her/his kid learning "pitches" rather than doing the long, hard, boring work of developing control.

What about strikeouts? I didn't see that in the quoted stats.

 

[wave_twister]

The problem is that parents at lower levels get mesmerized by a pitch. A pitch doesn't make a pitcher good. What makes a pitcher good is the ability to locate her pitches and change speeds.

But, every newbie parent is more interested in her/his kid learning "pitches" rather than doing the long, hard, boring work of developing control.

Thank you for that, I was stumbling on this basic concept recently as I'm new to this and play at a lower level. I see this everywhere I turn, misled excitement in the wrong direction.

 

[pumpkinbear]

The stats were quoted to point out that riseball pitchers give up more home runs. That is a long way from trivia.

In the cases of Hawkins and Wilkinson, might these aces be facing, on average, more formidable hitters?

Megan Good is also a riseballer so I don't think this comparison tells us much.