- Jan 15, 2009
- 584
- 0
You are correct that LBR does not affect the batter runner until they reach 1B. However IMU the LBR can be applied to individual runners, so you can lock the runner at 3B long before the batter runner reaches 1B.
Take the out?
- Thread starter vdubya
- Start date
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You are correct that LBR does not affect the batter runner until they reach 1B. However IMU the LBR can be applied to individual runners, so you can lock the runner at 3B long before the batter runner reaches 1B.
Conclusion!
fter a couple of tournaments, we came to a decision.
First, we were all reminded that umpires generally have no idea how/when to apply the LBR. At best they get it right 2 out of 10 times. Probably closer to one in ten. Even at nationals in Orlando they managed to blow calls. While LBR is a good rule, umpires making incorrect calls is the norm even in games where I don't have a dog in the fight. I vow to never, ever teach a play that relies on the LBR being properly called.
Now--as to the question of taking the out...
If the walked runner continues to second, we will usually get her out and only after that will we look at that lead runner. We are a team that generally takes the out at first. If that batter who walked had laid down a bunt we would have thrown her out and let the run score without blinking in most cases. NOT contesting a sac bunter is not an option unless the run is a walk off rbi, so we will not allow a BB to turn into an uncontested double regardless of the number of outs. Result:One run, one more out and none on instead of less outs and 2 RISP. Bigger picture is we avoid the long inning that loses most games.
Thanks and good luck!
fter a couple of tournaments, we came to a decision.
First, we were all reminded that umpires generally have no idea how/when to apply the LBR. At best they get it right 2 out of 10 times. Probably closer to one in ten. Even at nationals in Orlando they managed to blow calls. While LBR is a good rule, umpires making incorrect calls is the norm even in games where I don't have a dog in the fight. I vow to never, ever teach a play that relies on the LBR being properly called.
Now--as to the question of taking the out...
If the walked runner continues to second, we will usually get her out and only after that will we look at that lead runner. We are a team that generally takes the out at first. If that batter who walked had laid down a bunt we would have thrown her out and let the run score without blinking in most cases. NOT contesting a sac bunter is not an option unless the run is a walk off rbi, so we will not allow a BB to turn into an uncontested double regardless of the number of outs. Result:One run, one more out and none on instead of less outs and 2 RISP. Bigger picture is we avoid the long inning that loses most games.
Thanks and good luck!
- Jun 22, 2008
- 3,438
- 48
And I'm sure you have mastered the rule, right?
The rule sucks! It should be abolished. The need for the rule has pretty much passed its time.
I know what our teams does, we throw directly to first after the walk and that stops the runner from going to second(Takes the choice out of it). I would have to think that it depends on the situation and the skill of your team.
I feel that anything you do on this play depends completely on how important the runner on 3B is! You should already have made that decision before the batter sees the first pitch. (What are you going to do if she sac bunts?). You should then signal your infield whether they should a) keep the run from scoring, or b) take the out.
If you need to protect against that run, then there really is no value in trying to stop that runner at 1B. She is off to 2B on the next pitch anyway, and a mis-handled throw to 1B lets the run score. If, on the other hand, you are willing to trade the run at 3B for an out, I definitely do not want to stop the batter from continuing on to 2B. If she continues, then IMO the other coach just offered up an easy out. It's a MUCH easier out to get with the ball in the pitcher's hand than having the catcher throw down to 2B on at steal attempt. In addition, if she continues, you have more options defensively. If you defend it right (by freezing the 3B runner before you throw for the out), you have the possibility of tagging her out mid-way between 1B & 2B and/or STILL gunnng the runner down at home.
If you need to protect against that run, then there really is no value in trying to stop that runner at 1B. She is off to 2B on the next pitch anyway, and a mis-handled throw to 1B lets the run score. If, on the other hand, you are willing to trade the run at 3B for an out, I definitely do not want to stop the batter from continuing on to 2B. If she continues, then IMO the other coach just offered up an easy out. It's a MUCH easier out to get with the ball in the pitcher's hand than having the catcher throw down to 2B on at steal attempt. In addition, if she continues, you have more options defensively. If you defend it right (by freezing the 3B runner before you throw for the out), you have the possibility of tagging her out mid-way between 1B & 2B and/or STILL gunnng the runner down at home.
....and if I was playing your team and looking to go to second on this play, as soon as your 1b throws back to pitcher I'm sending my runner...
Also...at 14u and up, that steal on the 'next pitch' is not automatic...good arms/smart players can get both, and at a minimum, get one...
True enough, but if a team won't be stealing on the next pitch, they probably wouldn't be sending the runner on a walk. My main point was that any way you plan to defend the runner going to 2B is easier to execute when the pitcher has the ball. So continuing to 2B on the walk makes it easier on the defense. Offensively, if you want to get the runner to 2B and/or score the runner from 3B, then you make it more difficult for the defense if you wait and steal on the next pitch.
agreed....the pitcher having the ball in the circle makes the runner at 3rd anchored on the bag until a play is made...which is why I'd not throw to 1st..we have the catcher get the ball to the pitcher asap to get the runner at 3rd back to the bag...
Very important for catcher to get ball back to pitcher immediately then pitcher needs to stare at runner on 3rd, with ball in glove and down at her side. LBR is only in effect if pitcher is not makeing a play on any runner. And what constitutes a play is at discretion of Ump. If ball is in pitchers hand and she even looks like she might throw to 3rd some umps see that as making a play and allow runner to dance around all she wants until ball is put away. Last year, 7th grade team we worked on this a little, mostly how important it was to get ball back to pitcher and have her stare down 3b runner. One game we did it perfectly. 3b runner was dancing around about 5ft off base while pitcher was staring at her and batter/runner rounded first heading to 2nd. Blue yelled "Dead ball runner out at 3rd, batter/runner back to 1st" Opposing coach was livid but that is the LBR.
