Swing feedback

[TDS]

Not sure if this has already been discussed... I've skipped most of the posts... I like pictures ... my .02....

You could take either one of the recent GIFs...

She get's to the "stork" / "tewks Go A" position and then what? That is gather.

She doesn't know how to break the seal on the balance from there... so she does that back leg / knee flex thing to get going and slides out with the hips and front leg from there. It could be lots better.

The coil forward to start the sequence from that starting gather position would be where I would go. In the stork position you can try two different things... 1) add the back leg flex as part of the gather, basically take that away as an option to break the seal (because it's already done). Or 2) just tell her not to do that knee bend thing as the first move.

Ok so what to do instead to break the seal and get the FbC.... ?

Buttermaker has a nice cue that I have swiped and that is "take the top of the rear leg towards 3B".. or in this case... move the top of the leg towards the Bed bath beyond bag..... think of the femur as a joy stick (do kids even know what a joy stick is anymore?) and move it towards the bag behind her. While doing this... keep the Belly button pointed at the camera (it will probably still move back some and thats ok, but the intent is to keep it at the camera).

This action should break the stalemate of her starting position and she'll move forward... and she'll be coiling too.... what's that called? FbC!

Good Luck!

Or one could put the legs in neutral (not active) and allow the responsibility of the movement to be caused by the core.. This should allow for the flow of moment up and down both sides of the body and the legs will naturally do there thing.

Many times the harder one tries to isolate/focus the movement to one side/segment of the body lessens the chances for a naturally balanced sequence.

 

[NoonTime]

Or one could put the legs in neutral (not active) and allow the responsibility of the movement to be caused by the core.. This should allow for the flow of moment up and down both sides of the body and the legs will naturally do there thing.

Many times the harder one tries to isolate/focus the movement to one side/segment of the body lessens the chances for a naturally balanced sequence.

if that works for you great... personally I think its all the same, just different ways of communicating to the player to achieve an end movement pattern.

So... what would you communicate to the hitter here as instruction to "put the legs in neutral (not active) and allow the responsibility of the movement to be caused by the core"? What would you say? What would you have them do? How would you tell them to do it?

 

[Eric F]

if that works for you great... personally I think its all the same, just different ways of communicating to the player to achieve an end movement pattern.

So... what would you communicate to the hitter here as instruction to "put the legs in neutral (not active) and allow the responsibility of the movement to be caused by the core"? What would you say? What would you have them do? How would you tell them to do it?

EXCELLENT question, Noon. The biggest challenge for many of us is how to communicate swing/movement ideas in a way young players can understand and implement.

 

[RichK]

Or one could put the legs in neutral (not active) and allow the responsibility of the movement to be caused by the core.. This should allow for the flow of moment up and down both sides of the body and the legs will naturally do there thing.

Many times the harder one tries to isolate/focus the movement to one side/segment of the body lessens the chances for a naturally balanced sequence.

if that works for you great... personally I think its all the same, just different ways of communicating to the player to achieve an end movement pattern.

So... what would you communicate to the hitter here as instruction to "put the legs in neutral (not active) and allow the responsibility of the movement to be caused by the core"? What would you say? What would you have them do? How would you tell them to do it?

Boy, I think that "putting the legs in neutral" thing is pretty dangerous...IMO...

Working with many female hitters, old and young, I think "unengaged" legs/butts (and really unengaged bodies top to bottom) is perhaps the number one issue hitters need to overcome -- especially at the start. Boys tend to "dig in" or "look like a hitter" naturally, in the process and *by imitation* often engaging their bodies in the necessary way to swing without really thinking about it or needing to be taught.

Girls, especially beginners, often don't do that. I call it "standing on two stick legs" and is one of the first things I fix. The girls that do that also think "swinging" means swinging with your arms. And that "rotation" can be accomplished by spinning out their backfoot. And right there you have the recipe for the DBSF swing and squish the bug mechanics that everyone is trying to fix.

You need to have an engaged body to make a dynamic and explosive movement like swinging a bat. Young female hitters often need explicit lessons and ongoing correction to achieve this, I have found.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Personally I gave Noon the benefit of the doubt with his 'neutral' comment. To me he was simply describing the rear leg to be in a 'posted state' and something to be 'acted upon'.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Stick, I’m wondering if this instruction here made sense to you.

Stick - my advice before was to happen after this part of taking the rear leg towards the 3B line while keeping the BB on the plate - as the front leg starts dropping you then try and reverse the first part by taking the butt back towards the catcher while at the same time take the BB towards the catcher from the plate side. The net effect should be more hip flexion - yes ditch the knee flexion to kick start the movement.

 

[mann]

EXCELLENT question, Noon. The biggest challenge for many of us is how to communicate swing/movement ideas in a way young players can understand and implement.

No kidding, each player responds in different ways.
Since SNF is my main starting point they become familiar with the feeling of the position and resistance built in.

so what i want them to do is stride into the SNF

 

[TDS]

Boy, I think that "putting the legs in neutral" thing is pretty dangerous...IMO...

Working with many female hitters, old and young, I think "unengaged" legs/butts (and really unengaged bodies top to bottom) is perhaps the number one issue hitters need to overcome -- especially at the start. Boys tend to "dig in" or "look like a hitter" naturally, in the process and *by imitation* often engaging their bodies in the necessary way to swing without really thinking about it or needing to be taught.

Girls, especially beginners, often don't do that. I call it "standing on two stick legs" and is one of the first things I fix. The girls that do that also think "swinging" means swinging with your arms. And that "rotation" can be accomplished by spinning out their backfoot. And right there you have the recipe for the DBSF swing and squish the bug mechanics that everyone is trying to fix.

You need to have an engaged body to make a dynamic and explosive movement like swinging a bat. Young female hitters often need explicit lessons and ongoing correction to achieve this, I have found.

RichK, sorry but my experience has been the opposite.. I want the legs reacting to core usage vs the core reacting to the leg usage... Leveraging the leg as the driver is what causes the movement in the frontal plane to trump the inside out sagittal actions of the core. Using the leg as the driver also many times eliminates the need or use of the front side.

 

[tjintx]

RichK, sorry but my experience has been the opposite.. I want the legs reacting to core usage vs the core reacting to the leg usage... Leveraging the leg as the driver is what causes the movement in the frontal plane to trump the inside out sagittal actions of the core. Using the leg as the driver also many times eliminates the need or use of the front side.

Agreed TDS, You have it right, but the problem is communicating the message that will yield the desired results. Replies by many posters tells us, they themselves can't yet grasp the idea of the core(proximal) as the place to focus initially. Instead they focus on the arms and legs(distal) areas because what they see(think immediate feedback) as an issue with the arms or legs is actually rooted in a much deeper fault. So, knowing it would be a stretch for this young hitter to understand this discussion, how do we deliver the message in a way that delivers the desired result.
In other words, how do we trick the student into moving in a way that activates the core without talking about the core?
How do we get the student to swing within the sagittal without using the word sagittal plane?
How do we get the student to use the.......
There are lots of Dad's and Mom's reading here that cannot or have not yet made the connection so the discussion is actually an attempt to make them understand first. They ask for ways to make their hitter understand, but what they need are words to make them understand too.

So as a visual for this hitter, watch how the head drops straight down THEN goes forward toward the pitcher(I know it's tee-work). Overlap those movements, go forward as She lowers... What words make this hitter go forward and lower dynamically without saying "go forward and lower dynamically"? Go TJ

 

[Buttermaker]

EXCELLENT question, Noon. The biggest challenge for many of us is how to communicate swing/movement ideas in a way young players can understand and implement.

Take the top of the rear leg towards the 3B bag - as you are doing this your shoulders will tend to counter rotate - don't let them by trying to keep the area of the belly button (core) from turning back to the catcher. This will pull your front shoulder down and in.

Also don't let your front hip move towards to plate as this is happening. Usually the above is enough info to get a player moving but sometimes this needs to be addressed.

Your core is engaged.

Now - when the front leg/foot starts to drop - you are going to try and have your butt turn back to the catcher while at the same time counter rotate the shoulders (or take the BB area towards the catcher from the plate side). But in an effort of being as descriptive as possible with the written word - try and counter rotate your shoulders are you rotate your butt back to the catcher.