substitution questions

[corlay]

Basic scenario:
1. I may sub for a Player (Player A) in the lineup with any player not yet entered in the game (Sub 1). (or re-enter a previous sub for that spot in the lineup)
2. Player A may re-enter the game, but only in the same spot in the lineup, and only once.
3. Sub 1 may re-enter the game, but ONLY for Player A, and with this substitution, Player A is now out of the game and may not re-enter.

Substitution questions:
1. May I then enter a new substitution for Sub 1, if that bench player (Sub 2) has not yet entered the game previously? now Sub 1 is out of the game and may not re-enter, and Sub 2 is now tied to that spot in the lineup?
2. if the ruleset allows for "courtesy runner" for pitcher/catcher, and that courtesy player is mandated to be a bench player (and not the "last out"), can that player run for BOTH pitcher and catcher if those positions are separated in the lineup so as they would never occupy the basepaths simultaneously?
3. If I use a courtesy runner for pitcher and/or catcher, can that player later be entered into the game as a regular substitution? or are they "stuck" as a courtesy runner and cannot enter the game as a position player? Do they have to enter the game in the lineup spot for the pitcher or catcher they ran for? or can it be any spot in the lineup?

thanks.

 

[Sweet Lou]

I think some substitution rules may vary depending on Org but my understanding on your questions would be as follows

1 - that sounds correct.
2 - Typically the courtesy runner can only run for one player. That is CR runs for C then CR can only courtesy run for that C for the remainder of the game. A different bench player who has not entered the game would have to CR for P.
3- The CR is still a sub on your bench who can enter the game for any player. If your CR is subbed into the game she can no longer serve as a CR for teh remainder of the game. That is C would need to run for herself unless you had another unused bench player who could serve as CR.

 

[Comp]

Once a player has been in the lineup they may only occupy that same spot in the lineup. When you enter a sub for player A, they are now locked to that position in the lineup. Nothing says that sub can now only reenter for Player A, you could put 5 different subs in that same position and any one of those players may reenter that spot as long as they still have a reentry available. You could put in sub 1 for Player A, then sub 2 for sub 1, then sub 3 for sub 2, reenter sub 1 for sub 3, reenter sub 2 for sub 1 and then reenter player A. The subs are not locked to a player, they are locked to the position in the order.

As for courtesy runners, it is going to depend on the ruleset. NFHS and USA the courtesy runner can only run for one position, you would need a second courtesy for the other. I believe USSSA allows them to run for both, but would have to double check. As stated, most rule sets require the courtesy runner to be a player that has not yet participated in the game. Once used, they are locked to the position they ran for as a courtesy runner, not the player. If they ran for the catcher, they can run for any player that may be put in as catcher, assuming they have not been used in the game. A courtesy runner may not be used as a substitute in the same half inning that they ran as a courtesy runner.

 

[ang2bmd]

Here's another. If the dp hits can the flex run? Example player A dp big bat slow. Player b flex great defense fast. When A gets on base can b take over and run

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[Comocoach]

Here's another. If the dp hits can the flex run? Example player A dp big bat slow. Player b flex great defense fast. When A gets on base can b take over and run

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Yes, but the above mentioned substitution rules apply.

 

[Comp]

Here's another. If the dp hits can the flex run? Example player A dp big bat slow. Player b flex great defense fast. When A gets on base can b take over and run

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Yes but it counts as a substitute for the dp and they must use a reentry to come back into the game. If you do it a 2nd time that particular do is done for the game and you would need to enter a sub if you want to continue to use a do.

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[marriard]

I believe USSSA allows them to run for both, but would have to double check. As stated, most rule sets require the courtesy runner to be a player that has not yet participated in the game.

So USSSA has a more complex and rather stupid courtesy runner rule which adds to other CR rules:

1) You have to use a sub if you have one
2) The same CR can run for both P & C BUT NOT IN THE SAME INNING
3) If you don't have a sub available to CR, the LAST COMPLETED AT BAT can be the CR (and you can bypass the P or C if they would be this player)
4) If you screw it up and put the wrong girl our there, the CR is OUT and the coach gets a warning (2nd offense is restriction to bench)

As an umpire I'd happily get rid of the whole rule. It is meant to speed things up - it really doesn't seem to.
As a coach I like it because I can get more players in the game.

 

[corlay]

Yes but it counts as a substitute for the dp and they must use a reentry to come back into the game.

so, does this constitute a "collapse" of the DP/FLEX?

In other words:
1. as soon as the FLEX pinch runs for the DP,
a. the DP/FLEX has been "collapsed"
b. The FLEX is now a regular position player in the DP spot in the lineup
c. the original DP is now on the bench.
2. if the DP re-enters,
a. That player MUST assume their original spot in the lineup
b. The DP/FLEX MAY be expanded, so that the FLEX may now (only) play the field and not bat.
c. OR, if DP/FLEX is not expanded, the current DP (and former FLEX) is now on the bench.

Did I get that correct?

Thanks.

 

[corlay]

Once used, they are locked to the position they ran for as a courtesy runner, not the player. If they ran for the catcher, they can run for any player that may be put in as catcher, assuming they have not been used in the game.

to clarify: if a CR is used for the Catcher, who is batting #4 in the lineup, and then later in the game, a different Player, who is already in the game and batting 7th, switches to be the Catcher, can the same CR run for the new Catcher?

 

[reagansdaddy]

All of the above, and additionally, many tournaments will make up their own courtesy runner rules.

I agree with marriard - great idea but doesn't speed the game up but does help get kids into games.