strikeouts or putting the ball in play--the mental appraoch

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Aug 8, 2008
66
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Bill asks the legitimate question, “How exactly does one "go for the strikeout"?” I have asked the converse question several times, how does one pitch to put the ball in play, or more specifically to hit the bat? The real question should be is there a significant difference between how one approaches an at bat if the intent is to strike the batter out or have them put the ball in play for a specific outcome?

Doesn’t a pitcher working for a strike out pitch away from the batters strength? Does a pitcher working for a ground ball only throw pitches that will be hit on the ground no matter what? What happens when the pitcher’s strength is the batters strength and vice versa, when the pitchers weakness is the batters weakness? How does the count affect the strategy? How do the previous pitch/pitches affect the strategy?

Is there a significant difference in how one sequences an at bat?

How does one resolve the following scenario: 3-2 count; bases loaded and game on the line; tough batter-tough pitcher, no real weaknesses; the batter fouls off the previous pitch which is just off the plate and the pitch was the strike out pitch and/or the pitch that was suppose to be put in play for the final out. Is the next pitch different if the intent is to get a strike out or to put the ball in play for the out?

To be frank, I believe that both mentalities are flawed. The pitcher’s mentality should be to work effectively and efficiently – one pitch at a time. The next pitch will be my best pitch. Most pitchers will have a chance at success if they develop a routine that gives them confidence - that includes how they practice, warm-up and what they do between pitches without any preconceived notion of outcome.

A pitchers job is to make the batter miss and that includes anything that is not hit well. A pitcher can be very successful with a 1 strike out and 1 hit per inning average if they don’t walk anyone and have a decent defense. A pitcher can lose with a 2+ strike outs per inning average for a variety of reasons.

A pitcher’s focus should be on process not outcome. To that end I suggest a third mentality: approach the game as if every pitch is a 3-0 count. How many times have you seen a pitcher get in a 3-0 count and battle back to a successful conclusion? It happens enough to make you wonder what changed. Sometimes it is a strikeout, sometimes it is a 1 pitch popup and sometimes it is a battle. But, in every case the pitcher’s focus and mentality changed after throwing 3 wasted pitches. It proves that it can be called up on command. It proves that a pitcher can make every pitch count and typically not every pitch is in the strike zone if the at-bat lasts for several pitches. It proves that a pitcher can work without wasting any pitches. It is a process driven scenario rather than outcome driven. The next pitch has to be good enough for the batter to swing and miss or the umpire to call it a strike. It has to be my best pitch. Why not have that mentality on every pitch?

What is the 3-0 mentality and how do you practice it and repeat it for 7 innings?
 
Oct 18, 2009
5
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CoachFP, the only thing that is ridiculous is any pitcher going to the rubber with the attitude that she is pitching just to let the batter hit the ball. This mind set is what your weaker pitcher might think. I have talked to many pitchers' parents that think the same way, and most have the weaker pitchers. Most of your weaker pitchers are taught to put the ball in play. My opinion is to teach the pitcher to use all her ability and teaching to strike the batter out, the batter will get their hits, but if the pitcher is going to the rubber with this attitude she will give her best performance. This mind set isn't a pitcher that goes to the rubber throwing fastballs trying to strike out everyone. It's a pitcher with the attitude of going to the rubber using all her talents to set up a batter, she is not on defense, she is pitching to strike the batter out, using all her talents and knowledge. This attitude must go hand in hand with knowledge and using all their ability to set the batter up...Yes for the strike out. Teaching a pitcher to setup a batter to hit the ball for a out is part of the game, but with the intent to strike her out.
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,888
113
Leftturn, consider my dd a very weak pitcher then. She goes with the idea that she might have to throw two or three in a day and so, she wants to set the hitter up. As I posted earlier, she averaged right at 7 Ks this summer and last HS season per game. She must have failed the rest of the time. batsics1, that was a very nice post!
 
May 4, 2009
874
18
Baltimore
CoachFP;

Your shot at Hal was unnecessary to make your point.

That was no shot. It describes what his experience is. A Ball and Open ball are two different things. I read where he "won" most of the tournaments he entered. Come on, I can't sit here and read this kind of garbage and not tell it like it is. And then he comes up with this strikeout business and you guys go along with it. Shame on you for taking up for him.
 
Dec 12, 2009
169
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CT
This is like comparing Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens to pitchers like Mike Mussina and Tommy John. It was clear that Ryan & Clemens were going out there with a "Strike 'em out" mentality for every batter. However, I don't think anyone would claim that either Mussina or Tommy John were going out there with a mindset to get 10-15 K's! They were both ground-ball pitchers and their approach was to make the batter hit a pitcher's pitch..something low and at the corners or off the plate. Certainly if they had a batter 0-2 they would try to get them to chase and get the K, but they were just as happy with a weak ground ball to the infield.

So, I think there are two different approaches in play here, and both of them can be successful. Certainly one is more exciting than the other, but they can both get results.

I do think, however, the ground ball pitchers are at a disadvantage with runners on and less that 2 out. It's nice to be able to get that K to take the pressure off the defense.......
 
Dec 23, 2009
791
0
San Diego
I don't need to defend Hal. He can do that himself. This entire discussion is full of back and forths where you have made your opinions about Hal's pitching history and disagreeing with his philosophy as clear as clear can be. I was merely suggesting that yet another shot about him not playing the level of ball you did was unnecessary. It's amazing how thick-skinned everyone else is supposed to be when participating on this and other sites but heaven forbid any disagreement with the words of the "veterans".
 

halskinner

Banned
May 7, 2008
2,637
0
That was no shot. It describes what his experience is. A Ball and Open ball are two different things. I read where he "won" most of the tournaments he entered. Come on, I can't sit here and read this kind of garbage and not tell it like it is. And then he comes up with this strikeout business and you guys go along with it. Shame on you for taking up for him.

Granted, it has been many years since I competed. However, back in 1980 there did not seem to be much difference to me or at least I did not care about any differences.

Like I said in a previous post, in 1980 my team (Joaquin Construction, A Div National Champs of 1979) played the inaugural game opening Ranbow Fields in Modesto. I pitched the game. We played against the ASA Men's A-Open div champions, also from Modesto, Dave Abel Insurance. I pitched 5 innings of shut out ball and we won 5-0, I struck most of the batters out. The lights went out after 5 innings and they could not get them to come back on, brand new park and still had some bugs to workout. The umps said it was a full game and called it.

A week later Dave Abel called me and asked me to pitch for his team.

It was an exhibition game but both teams took it seriously. Kind of a cross town rivalry thing.

Ever pitch against the A-open champions in your years and if so, how did it turn out?
 
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May 22, 2008
350
0
NW Pennsylvania
Batsics
A pitcher’s focus should be on process not outcome. To that end I suggest a third mentality: approach the game as if every pitch is a 3-0 count. How many times have you seen a pitcher get in a 3-0 count and battle back to a successful conclusion? It happens enough to make you wonder what changed.

That has just got to be one of the craziest approaches I can think of. For one thing, on a 3-0 count, whether a pitcher admits it or not, usually caution goes out the window & they are just trying to groove one to get back in the battle, hoping the batter is going to takea pitch. If you are a pitcher with an 0-2 count & you decide its time to have a 3-0 mentality, you are in big trouble.
 
Jul 14, 2008
1,796
63
I haven't read this entire thread........so forgive me for asking.....

Has anyone put up a game senario that a pitcher is actually not seeking a strikeout?

This is just a short a list of times that I want a K:

No outs, runner at first...bunt or hit and run situation.....I want a K......
Runners at 1st and 3rd.....tie game.......I want a K......
Runner at 3rd less then 2 outs......I want 2 k's.......
Runners at 2nd and 3rd....less then 2 outs.......I want 2 K's.....
Bases loaded....less then 2 outs.....I want 2 K's.......
7th inning tie game.....first hitter of the inning......I want 3 K's......
7th inning tie game.....2 outs.....runner at 3rd......I want a K....
Bottom of the 7th......we're ahead 1-0.......I want 3 K's.......
International tie breaker.....I want 3 K's.......

Can someone please put up a senario that they DON'T want a K?.........Outside of a 20 to nothin blowout of course......

I remember very well very early in my coaching career a high school section championship game that went down to the 7th 1-0 nothin us......The pitcher was my my student......I remember we were facing the bottom half........I thought to myself: don't over pitch to these weaker hitters trying to strike them out....lets get this thing over fast......just let em put it in play and let the defense work.......

We'd lived on rise/inside drop/change the entire game......17 k's to that point.......

I called an outside curve to the 7 hitter......she closed her eyes and ripped a single down the RF line.......Next hitter got an outside drop.......she hits a "spinner" that glances off the 2nd basemans glove and rolls into short right......runner from 1st heads to 3rd......right fielder fires it late to 3rd, while the hitter advances to 2nd on the throw......

I'm so friggin mad at myself at that point I call time........walk out to the mound......and tell the pitcher that I just made the worst decision of HER career......I told her I need HER HELP to get ME out of this jam I created for the team......She smiled and said "go sit down coach, I'll take care of it".......She called her catcher out to the mound.....said something to her like "nothin by you girl"........

The kid on the mound shifted to another gear and proceeded to throw it by 3 straight hitters.....game over.......I'd never heard her "grunt" like she did that inning, all season long.......

That inning changed her life as a pitcher....and my prospective on "putting the ball in play" vs. "strike outs"........I almost cost her a Section Championship........

The kid ended up with a full ride to Utah State........I never called pitches to "put a ball in play" again.......

So I'll asked one more time....Can someone put up a senario that a pitcher isn't/shouldn't be seeking a strikeout?........I don't know of one........
 
Dec 12, 2009
169
0
CT
So in your situation, you were leading 1-0, and 17 of 18 outs were on K's and you decided to try something different? I'd be kicking myself too ;o) Obviously if she is mowing them down, you go with what's working until they show you they can deal with it. I think you can tell early in a game, based on your pitcher and their hitters, whether it is going to be a strike-out day or not. If you have a flame thrower and/or the other team has weak bats, then a strike out approach is appropriate. However, if you have a low-ball/location/movement pitcher and the other team has decent hitters, then you need to recognize that the ball is going to get put in play, and not go crazy trying to get the K's. If you do, you end up having your pitcher throw away from her strength, and bad things can happen. For those pitchers, you look to throw your best pitches, and if you get an 0-2 count, then you try to get them to chase for the K.

I would say early in the game, ground balls or pop-ups look just as good to me as K's. Obviously there are situations in a game where you want a K (many you just mentioned). However, in some of those situations (runner at 3B w/no outs) you may be looking at a sac bunt situation anyway.

Going back to my earlier post, if Tommy John or Mike Mussina went into a game looking to strike everyone out, I don't think they would have been anywhere near as successful as they were.
 
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