Starting a Club Team......?

[SoftballFanatic123]

Question please.
Are you saying practices offer reps however no dicipline or structure?
Or
The players on those level of teams dont train on their own?
Or
Are you saying for the cost/price people are paying should include private instruction?

I get the gist of your original post.
You can see starting another team/organization.
Thats how all the teams on your list got started too!

For the price, the lack of individualized instruction is poor. There is peer assistance at practice, but, a lot of kids train on their own outside of the team, which I believe results in a group of individuals on the field and not a team. I would think for that price point that there would be paid instructors aside from the coaches. Individual and team development etc.......The coaches go through the motions, but don't actually train.....IMHO. Maybe I am missing something in all of this but I do not see the price being worth the results...... that is what I would look to change.
I have heard a lot of people refer to travel club ball as a cash cow for the owner..... at the numbers above, I would think that it would be when you look at the costs.

 

[radness]

For the price, the lack of individualized instruction is poor. There is peer assistance at practice, but, a lot of kids train on their own outside of the team, which I believe results in a group of individuals on the field and not a team. I would think for that price point that there would be paid instructors aside from the coaches. Individual and team development etc.......The coaches go through the motions, but don't actually train.....IMHO. Maybe I am missing something in all of this but I do not see the price being worth the results...... that is what I would look to change.
I have heard a lot of people refer to travel club ball as a cash cow for the owner..... at the numbers above, I would think that it would be when you look at the costs.

it seems like you are saying that coaches run practice but they are not detail oriented.

you keep talking about the price point but what does that include Does it include other things like indoor hitting and weekly Speed and Agility?

if your comments are really noticing you think the coaching is low-level and you are going to increase that level yourself a lot of people want to give that a try and go for it. As far as people going to instructors that is part of getting Technical Training and hopefully the instructors are more detailed oriented than the coaches.

how long have you been around softball and travel ball?

 

[SoftballFanatic123]

I've been around it for 5+ years. The coaches are not focused equally on all kids on the team. Practices look like they are going through the motions, but there is not really skills development training, It is a general practice. In my mind, outfield should practice outfield.... infield should practice infield, pitchers pitching and catchers catching..... all members should get batting training. development, skills and repetition. There is no agility training at all...... seems like a weak program but it is a common thread to other parents that I talk to from other teams...... Its sad to think that this is the "norm", especially for the money....... if it is, I would think it would be easy to out do it. The bar is not set too high.
I will also add the disclaimer that I have not heard that about all the teams that I mentioned, they are the local teams........... not sure if trying out elsewhere is the answer or trying to raise the local bar.

 

[Agbracing]

For the price, the lack of individualized instruction is poor. There is peer assistance at practice, but, a lot of kids train on their own outside of the team, which I believe results in a group of individuals on the field and not a team. I would think for that price point that there would be paid instructors aside from the coaches. Individual and team development etc.......The coaches go through the motions, but don't actually train.....IMHO. Maybe I am missing something in all of this but I do not see the price being worth the results...... that is what I would look to change.
I have heard a lot of people refer to travel club ball as a cash cow for the owner..... at the numbers above, I would think that it would be when you look at the costs.

The biggest thing that separates different level of players is the amount of work they put in at home. The girls that work harder and want it more gravitate towards each other on better teams. While all ages should have some developmental aspects to practice I see the practice as a time to bring all the individual skill sets together to be effective as a team.

I get it and I hear people all the time wanting to do things different and be team oriented among other issues. . And you win or lose as a team but the game is made up of individual plays by each player. It’s not like football or basketball that players can have a direct effect on the outcome of a single play or at bat.

This idea sounds great and probably looks great on paper but not sure about it working in real life. Having an indoor facility, pulling in enough talent to be competitive, just to name a couple. I hate to discourage anyone wanting to help our young athletes. But I just don’t see it working from scratch and expect a profit.

 

[Orange Socks]

RADCatcher is a private Catching instructor that has been doing this for many years. She can tell you the value of working with catchers individually. During team practices that should be dedicated to team activities. If there is time, you might be able to break down some skill instruction in smaller groups. Catchers, Outies, Innies. Not much time for individual instruction. That is what individual private instructors of your choice is for. DD's team would have 2 a days (2-3hr sessions)during the fall on Saturdays and Sundays when there wasn't a tourney. There still was never enough time to work one on one. There are so many Team things that need to be done to get them ready for the following weekend. Pitchers and Catcher usually show up an hour early for bull pen work before the rest of the position players arrive. DD is a catcher and would go to the coach's warehouse during the week with the other catchers for drill work for 2 hours at no extra cost. When she was younger she had a private catching/hitting instructor that she would see outside of team practices. Not all coaches teach the same methodology for hitting, catching and fielding. Have you been to the Hitting forum on here?

When you are forced to use the Team coaches for individual instruction instead of a private instructor of their choices, I tend to hear more grumbling from parents because they might already have a good report with their existing instructor. If we are honest, not all coaches are a good fit for the players or parents. Parents would rather pay less for team dues and pay as they go for private instruction. With teams dues you should be getting some instruction when warranted to tweak some deficiencies. Team dues should be paying for Tournaments, umpire fees, uniforms(sometimes), gear bags, sometimes coach's hotel, air fare and meals, team insurance, field rental, team website, sometimes an outside coach($400-$500 a month). At $1800 per player at 16-18 players you should be able to have most of your expenses taken care with maybe a little bit left over to help for pay for tournaments for next year which what is required to play in the better tourneys. Since you have to pay one year in advance to secure your spot. And of course you will lose players and you will also have to scholarship some players from time to time.

If you want to be an entrepreneur and actually make money at this, you will need to follow the Tony Rico (Firecrackers), Scott Smith (Bombers) methodology. Go to their websites and see how many teams they have.

 

[radness]

RADCatcher is a private Catching instructor that has been doing this for many years. She can tell you the value of working with catchers individually. During team practices that should be dedicated to team activities. If there is time, you might be able to break down some skill instruction in smaller groups. Catchers, Outies, Innies. Not much time for individual instruction. That is what individual private instructors of your choice is for. DD's team would have 2 a days (2-3hr sessions)during the fall on Saturdays and Sundays when there wasn't a tourney. There still was never enough time to work one on one. There are so many Team things that need to be done to get them ready for the following weekend. Pitchers and Catcher usually show up an hour early for bull pen work before the rest of the position players arrive. DD is a catcher and would go to the coach's warehouse during the week with the other catchers for drill work for 2 hoursspecializeda cost. When she was younger she had a private catching/hitting instructor that she would see outside of team practices. Not all coaches teach the same methodology for hitting, catching and fielding. Have you been to the Hitting forum on here?

When you are forced to use the Team coaches for individual instruction instead of a private instructor of their choices, I tend to hear more grumbling from parents because they might already have a good report with their existing instructor. If we are honest, not all coaches are a good fit for the players or parents. Parents would rather pay less for team dues and pay as they go for private instruction. With teams dues you should be getting some instruction when warranted to tweak some deficiencies. Team dues should be paying for Tournaments, umpire fees, uniforms(sometimes), gear bags, sometimes coach's hotel, air fare and meals, team insurance, field rental, team website, sometimes an outside coach($400-$500 a month). At $1800 per player at 16-18 players you should be able to have most of your expenses taken care with maybe a little bit left over to help for pay for tournaments for next year which what is required to play in the better tourneys. Since you have to pay one year in advance to secure your spot. And of course you will lose players and you will also have to scholarship some players from time to time.

If you want to be an entrepreneur and actually make money at this, you will need to follow the Tony Rico (Firecrackers), Scott Smith (Bombers) methodology. Go to their websites and see how many teams they have.

Good read Orange Socks!

Too add for conversation.
It appears several 'topics' in the op situation/posts.

In one read
Do you try and elevate local softball?
Or
Seek a team farther away?

This topic is possibly the main reason people drive!
In search of...
If you havent already went farther looking for say better coaching or talent level.
This would seem best 'first' course of action.
Along with what is your goal assume with dd playing.

Are you wanting travel with flying to tournaments?
Or what level team.
We dont really have teams assigned a.b.c. level here so.cal.
However do have many venues at different costs and talent levels.
Some top tier never go to.
Some starter mid-level never go to.
Getting on the better teams HERE 'generally' means putting in the time for specialized instruction outside of the team.
(As Orange Socks commented)
Or deffinetly quality individual time training.

 

[Orange Socks]

I will also add the disclaimer that I have not heard that about all the teams that I mentioned, they are the local teams........... not sure if trying out elsewhere is the answer or trying to raise the local bar.

From what I am reading, it sounds like your DD is on team that is not very serious. Sounds like the team is the Hittin' Kittens. What are your expectations as a parent? If those expectations are not being met based you and your DD's goal, find another team. Change to a real program and the bar will be raised. Is this for your DD or for you to make a buck? I am not from your area, but am familiar with some of the better programs since I have watched them play . What about the Jersey Intensity, NJ Gators, PA Chaos, Rock Gold? Most of these teams have been around a while, and have the history or placing kids in college. Their goals are to play the best competition regionally and nationally. Playing the best competition will raise the bar, and if those players are not improving they will quit. If you are concerned with travel, in my area there are many players that play on teams that are over 3 hours from their homes. There are some teams that will get players from all over the country.

 

[marriard]

I am located in NJ. There are a whole lot of the travel / club teams.
I would think that any club that has 10U-12U-14U-16U and showcase teams would have a staff that provides training for batting, catching and a performance improvement plan, skill mastery by age group, pitching is usually done on their own, but staff that can understand what they're watching and offer assistance if needed. What I see in the area remains unimpressive to me.
.... no where in my post did I say that I am the best coach in the world and that I know it all. I can do some quick math tho......13 kid roster @3k with an 6-8 team program = @$300,000k annually....... I think there is a lot of money there to do a lot of good in the way of dedicated training, individualized training etc
There are a lot of teams around here so I ll give a list.....lets see who knows what and what the opinion is..........

I find it VERY concerning that you did not list Intensity on your list since they are in your backyard and KOD was and probably still is making big $$$. Their model is nationwide. While I am not a big fan of Intensity they really should be who you are listing first. Orange Socks named some others I am familiar with having run into them at various nationals and showcases.

I am not familiar with most of the teams your list - I may have seen a couple at best and we spent a lot of time recently in the NE showcase scene. Is it as simple as big fish-small pond? Are you wanting to be serious and these teams are just not?

Have you ventured out to go see the big dogs play or play in their playground?

I've been around it for 5+ years. The coaches are not focused equally on all kids on the team. It is a general practice. In my mind, outfield should practice outfield.... infield should practice infield, pitchers pitching and catchers catching..... all members should get batting training. development, skills and repetition. There is no agility training at all...... seems like a weak program but it is a common thread to other parents that I talk to from other teams...... Its sad to think that this is the "norm", especially for the money....... if it is, I would think it would be easy to out do it. The bar is not set too high.

Most teams practice 2x/week for 2 hours. Some more, some less but not too much more when you have weekend long tournaments. It really isn't a lot of time for a coach to get a lot of things done individually or even other than softball related stuff. Which is why a lot of it is handled outside team practices.

I have run some national-level teams, and we do a lot of teamwork in practices and some rep work and we build other things into what we do. I can't take 30 minutes away from my limited practice time to specifically do 'agility' - we build all that stuff into softball drills and stations. And one hitting coach isn't enough for 12 kids if I only see them in these time frames.

ADDED: My best 18U national team practiced twice in total. They lived all over the state and just got together for tournaments. Great team. They all worked their butts off practicing individually but not as a team. That is how it is often for these teams - and believe me the cost is still much the same because those tournaments are not cheap.

1:1 30 min-60 min lessons are what all my best players are doing outside of practice and the best ones hit at home - even if it is just a quick 5 minute bucket. Pitchers have their own coaches. I expect by 14U/HS for all of them to be in the gym; but I am not the person who provides those services.

I am part of running a fairly large org; 10 travel teams non-profit plus an associated rec league we invest in heavily. The money is in running tournaments and large fundraisers. We keep players fees down Out top team have a national affiliation which helps with keeping talent and reputation. None of our board members are paid - some of our teams have paid coaches or coaches. We have instructors who give subsidized lessons (i.e. org pays 1/2) and a lot of our players take advantage of that.

$300k for running 6-8 elite-level programs is not very much. Tournaments eat a huge amount and if you have to pay coaches and rent facilities and insurance and equipment and so on - it is going to eat it up quick - there is a major jump in costs when you get to the showcase arena. And you HAVE TO WIN; that is part of this; where are you getting your players from because they are not coming down from established big name programs.

Been around this a long time - seen too many dads do this sort of thing and get way into it (way more than their kid oftentimes) - the worst ones are when they decide to open up a batting cage facility - those are a massive money pit.

 

[joe720]

While 300k seems like a lot of money stacked on a table, once you divvy out the money to coaches, tournaments, equipment, facilities, insurance, and a million other expenses, there is not much left over.

My DD plays for a higher level org in the northeast, i'm sure you'd know the name if i said it. I'm pretty friendly with the head of the org, and he is working 50 hours a week at his regular job. There are roughly 16 teams in the org.,

 

[SoftballFanatic123]

I appreciate all of the comments.......keep 'em coming. I agree that the intensity is lacking in what I have been exposed to so far. My daughter likely is not good enough to compete on the national teams. She is an average hitter and pretty decent fielder. I guess in my head, I was expecting more for the money I have laid out and figured that it would not be hard to develop a business model that would out do what I have seen being offered. I guess it is one of the situations of you only know what you know. I do not know all of the top level teams out there and what they are actually offering as opposed to what I have been exposed to. I only want what is best for the kids that I coach and was thinking I could try to raise the bar.