- Aug 20, 2013
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Runner on 1B. Batter hits a hard grounder to 3B. 3B knocks it down and throws to 2nd base but the runner beats the throw and is safe.
How is this scored for the batter?
How is this scored for the batter?
Scoring question
- Thread starter CatchTheFever
- Start date
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There's really just a choice between FC or H for the AB because they didn't try to retire the B-R. So, FC if R1 would have been out without an error or the B-R could have been retired at 1B. Otherwise, it is a hit.
The error (E5) would be an additional recording if R1 should have been out with ordinary effort.
The error (E5) would be an additional recording if R1 should have been out with ordinary effort.
- Aug 20, 2013
- 265
- 0
It was a quick knock down and pick up. Not sure if the runner to 2nd would have been safe or not, but I believe the batter could have been thrown out at 1st. So FC rather than base hit?
The way the play was made, I was only considering FC or Hit. I don't think it was an error either way.
The way the play was made, I was only considering FC or Hit. I don't think it was an error either way.
If the scorkeeper believes that the batter would've been out at first, then it's a FC.
If the scorekeeper believes the batter could've been thrown out at first, but is not fairly certain, then it's a hit. You give the benefit of the doubt to the batter, IMO. That's the way NCAA softball rules are written.
If it's a quick knockdown and pickup, that sounds like it should be an out at 1B unless it's a pretty fast batter. But if there's reasonable doubt, I would score it a hit.
- Sep 30, 2013
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As others have mentioned, that’s really not enough information to make anything other than a guess.
To me, if the ball was hit right at the F5 and knocked down there, she must have taken forever to pick it up and throw to 2nd, had an extremely weak arm, or R1 was an Olympic sprinter who left on contact.
If it was the 1st scenario, unless it was an extremely hard shot, I’m likely scoring it an ROE for the batter because cleanly fielding the ball would have easily gotten either R1 or the BR with a good throw. if it was the 2nd scenario, I’m likely scoring it a hit because if she couldn’t have gotten R1, there was no way to get the BR on the longer throw. If it was scenario 3, I’d likely score an ROFC for the batter because there was a conscious choice made and it was the wrong one.
Now if the F5 had to dive for the ball or move more than a little distance to knock the ball down, then I’d likely score it a base hit all the way.
- Sep 29, 2014
- 2,421
- 113
The first question you have to answer is should the ball have been fielded cleanly, if the answer is no I am gong to be hard pressed to give an error but you still have to see it in person...was it such a hard shot that by the time she picks the ball up the batter is two step out of the box or is she a slapper that is half way down the line.
Next FC or H, most of the time I would score a H simply because the batter hit the ball well enough so that it could not be fielded cleanly anything after that would be the defense accomplishing something above and beyond what is normal course of play. Again if the ball was able to be fielded cleanly she could have got the out at second the reason she did not is because of what the batter did. I guess you can assume an out at first if was really obvious but without being there I'm leaning towards hit.
Next FC or H, most of the time I would score a H simply because the batter hit the ball well enough so that it could not be fielded cleanly anything after that would be the defense accomplishing something above and beyond what is normal course of play. Again if the ball was able to be fielded cleanly she could have got the out at second the reason she did not is because of what the batter did. I guess you can assume an out at first if was really obvious but without being there I'm leaning towards hit.
I know scoring purists will crucify me, but I wish in computer scoring today there was a way to classify errors to make the ROE stat more valuable. Even if it was as simple as unforced error versus forced error. If a slapper hits a ball to SS who had to charge it and does not field it cleanly that's much different than an easy ground ball to the first baseman who had it go between her legs. While it's not the number one thing I would look at, it would be nice to look at a kid who has a lot of ROE's and have more of a clue what cause that.
I interpreted ''knocked the ball down'' as a judgment that this is the best the fielder could be expected to do. But the last two posters are correct - If it is judged that the ball should have been fielded cleanly with ordinary effort, and that a cleanly fielded ball would've given F-5 time to throw out either runner, then it's an error.
To Scorekeeper: Remember that a softball F-5 is often 50 feet from the batter, whereas a baseball F-5 might be twice that. A lesser reaction time might make a scorekeeper more forgiving in softball than baseball. That is, on a ball that is hit hard, but not extremely hard.
To Scorekeeper: Remember that a softball F-5 is often 50 feet from the batter, whereas a baseball F-5 might be twice that. A lesser reaction time might make a scorekeeper more forgiving in softball than baseball. That is, on a ball that is hit hard, but not extremely hard.
ROE is not an option unless you're convinced the fielder originally intended to make the play at 1B and changed after the error.
Simple definitions of FC are generally inadequate (e.g. NCAA 14.2 Scoring Terms). Refer to the section(s) that cover FC in detail.
A fielder’s choice is credited in the following situations:
14.7.1 To a batter:
14.7.1.1 When a ground ball is put in play and any preceding base runner is out on the hit or would have been out had no error occurred.
14.7.1.2 When a ground ball is put in play and the lead base runner is safe, but the batter would have been out had the initial play gone to first base.
...
Simple definitions of FC are generally inadequate (e.g. NCAA 14.2 Scoring Terms). Refer to the section(s) that cover FC in detail.
A fielder’s choice is credited in the following situations:
14.7.1 To a batter:
14.7.1.1 When a ground ball is put in play and any preceding base runner is out on the hit or would have been out had no error occurred.
14.7.1.2 When a ground ball is put in play and the lead base runner is safe, but the batter would have been out had the initial play gone to first base.
...
