Radar Guns and PCs

[SoCalDad]

I don't get why a pitching coach would give a kid a false reading like that. It serves no purpose, especially since the point of taking the reading is to track progress.

In my opinion, money, ego, pride. Two PCs in my community. One who will tell anyone who listens how she can teach any 10U to throw 4 pitches at hit the mid 50s for only $35 private lesson or $20 for group. She advertises all over the place. Other PC only takes students by referral and charges $20 for private lesson. 2nd makes no promises and tells students they will only learn new pitches once they master the basics: fastball and change. In the rec league 14 students go to the first PC and 3 to the second. We have 3 top pitchers in rec league that are clearly above the rest. Guess which PC they go to? Yep the 2nd.

 

[Catching Coach]

Here is a repost of some data I put up in 2008 related to a similar post about the high speeds reported by young pitchers. The data below is from 2008 but the data I got from the 2009 NFCA camps was almost identical.


Lots of discussion on what is ave pitch speed for fastballs at different ages. I downloaded the results from the 5 NFCA Administered Camps held in 2008.

NFCA Pennsbury Recruiting Camp, Yardley, Penn., June 12
NFCA Great Lakes Recruiting Camp, Toledo, Ohio, June 19
NFCA Colorado Sparkler Recruiting Camp, Westminster, Colo., June 30
NFCA Colorado Fireworks Recruiting Camp, Aurora, Colo., July 1
NFCA Elite College Showcase Recruiting Camp, Plano, Texas, July 24

Now I have no way of knowing if any of the pitchers went to more then one but here is how the numbers worked out.

633 different pitchers results were tallied from the 5 camps

Each pitcher had the speed of 2 fastballs recorded.

The data for 1266 recorded fastballs showed an average MPH for all 1266 pitches as 56.5MPH

123 girls had at least one pitch at 60mph or faster

63 girls had both pitches at 60 or faster

Maximum MPH was 66, thrown 3 times by 3 different girls

Not sure what would be the ave age of these 633 girls but seems likely they are at least sophomores in high school.

Also bear in mind the velocities recorded were for the 2 fastest FB thrown.

Coach Weaver

 

[Dave D]

When I was in college, I had a roommate. We were the same height. I was measured in the doctor's office before the year started, and I was 6'0-1/4". Roomie was a basketball player who played as a 6-3 guard. When the team switched him to forward, he was suddenly 6-4. Standing shoulder to shoulder, we were still the same height. I started telling people I was 6-1. When I realized I was taller than everyone I knew who said they were 6-1, I started telling everyone I was 6-2. Many years later, I'm still doctor's office measured below 6-1, but to myself and everyone else in the world, I'm 6-2. The point is, nobody really knows what 6-1, 6-2 or 6-3 looks like, so they just go with a number folks will believe.

This has basically been my experience with pitching speed. Kids, parents, and other coaches ask me how hard DD throws. I usually say "mid to upper 50s," knowing full well that she RARELY cracks 55. I say this (scientific evidence to the contrary) because she throws the same speed as lots of girls whose dads swear they were just gunned at 58-60, and it's easier to agree with their speed than to try to convince them that they are working with inflated numbers. When I see a pitcher who's throwing 60 or over I KNOW it. I've seen very few in HS, 14U or even 16U who I believe are truly throwing over 60, but to listen to people, every other 12U pitcher out there is bringing it in the upper 50s, and EVERY 14U pitcher is throwing 61. Whatever. Some days, DD can throw it by most everybody, and other days, the thing comes up to the plate like a beach ball. I try not to spend any time even thinking about speed in MPH, just effective speed--when she needs it, can she use it to get batters out?

 

[SoCalDad]

When I see a pitcher who's throwing 60 or over I KNOW it...?

I agree. My DDs PC can still throw a fastball over 60. A few time in practice she has demonstrated full pitches to my DD. These pitches were in the 60s and she made me get off the bucket when she threw them. I am glad because there is no way I could have caught them. The reaction time between a high 50s and low 60s is noticeable and doesn't require a radar gun to see.

 

[Sweet Pitch 96]

So here's our situation. DD is 13 yo 7th grader and realistically throws low to mid 50's averages about 53 on her full speed pitches. She's on a team with another young lady (15 yo eighth-grader) who was brought on as a faster pitcher who was supposedlythrows upper 50's. Our dd just happened to start lessons with the same PC the other girl has, so he was out clocking the girls, looking at spin, control etc.... I bet you can guess the next part...Yep, they both averaged 53. The other young lady occasionally hits upper 50's in warm-ups, but in live games they have virtually the same speed. We rarely get out the radar gun ourselves; it only comes out when dh feels like he's having to react faster and wants to satisfy his curiosity. We've alwas been honest with coaches when we pickup or are looking for a new team, but are we doing her a disservice by not inflating her speeds by 5 mph like virtually everone else seems to do?

I've seen too many coaches drunk on speed. At 10U and 12U, we put too much emphasis on it too. Speed is quantifiable, measurable. But, how do you quantify movement and control. How to quantify mound presence and ability to work a batter?

 

[mad hornet]

I've seen too many coaches drunk on speed. At 10U and 12U, we put too much emphasis on it too. Speed is quantifiable, measurable. But, how do you quantify movement and control. How to quantify mound presence and ability to work a batter?

I would say with statistics such as strikeouts, walks, innings pitched, ERA, etc. Seen a lot of kids who can bring speed too but no control. Not much use in a game.

I also use a radar gun with our 10U pitchers. Being that my team (travel) has all normal sized ten year olds they top out in the low to mid 40's. What makes them effective is their ability to hit location and throw a change-up with command. We still win games against teams with harder throwing pitchers who can only throw one pitch.

 

[WiZ]

she can teach any 10U to throw 4 pitches at hit the mid 50s for only $35 private lesson or $20 for group. She advertises all over the place.

Unfortunately I think this is the case...... "Some" PCs will use the false mph to encourage a parent to continue PAYING for lessons. When I was new to this whole pitching thing I fell for it as well. I bought my own gun and now have a lot more respect for the PC who was honest with me.

 

[shockcoach]

Our club has it's own gun. I know how fast all of our kids throw. I chuckle when I hear about the exaggerated speeds people tell me their DD is throwing. I've become pretty good at guessing speeds of pitchers. Of course their kid also has 6 pitches at 12U and all of them are spot on with plenty of movement.

 

[sluggers]

Movement is quantifiable. All you have to do is put on some catcher gear and catch someone who makes the ball move. I caught Leigh Podlesny (former pitching coach for DePaul and former head coach at Middle Tennessee) for about 10 pitches. She has an incredible rise.

Once you catch someone who is really throwing a breaking pitch, you can step off to the side. You can really see the movement then.

 

[zjack999]

Radar Gun Use

I have a bushnell radar gun and am wondering the best angles to get accurate readings. I can get substantially different readings on very similar pitches viewed from different angles.
Thanks,