Question about a tie in pool play

[cmustangsfp]

The only time I would gripe about this was if it meant showing up at an earlier time (like really early) on Sunday. We are talking about being #1 or #2 here. SO usually they don't get the early games. Using run differential in pool games is not an effective measuring stick of either teams true ability. Some coaches sandbag or experiment with their line-ups (more PC answer). Some teams might draw the worst teams in the tournament and run-rule them, while another team might draw stiffer competition and have games that are closer. Using run differential encourages coaches to run up the scores against weaker competition.

 

[Scarecrow]

Not sure if this is universal USSSA, but our tournaments go:

Pool Standings Sorted on the following:
--------------------------------------------------
1) Winning Percentage - Descending
2) Number Wins - Descending
3) Number Loses - Ascending
4) Tied Teams (vs. each other) Winning Pct - Descending [Not valid if all teams have not played each other]
5) Avg Points Allowed - Ascending
6) Avg Run Differential with a maximum of (8) - Descending
7) USSSA Points - Descending
8) Date Team Entered USSSA Database

 

[canyonjoe]

Even worse than losing on one of these tie breakers is having a team you beat in pool have that game thrown out (because they played 4) and seeding hither than you so you are up at 6 and they don't play until 12:30.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Not sure if this is universal USSSA, but our tournaments go:

Pool Standings Sorted on the following:
--------------------------------------------------
1) Winning Percentage - Descending
2) Number Wins - Descending
3) Number Loses - Ascending
4) Tied Teams (vs. each other) Winning Pct - Descending [Not valid if all teams have not played each other]
5) Avg Points Allowed - Ascending
6) Avg Run Differential with a maximum of (8) - Descending
7) USSSA Points - Descending
8) Date Team Entered USSSA Database

That's in the USSSA by-laws for WS tournaments. They also specify the process continues and does not start over.

D. Teams will be seeded into the double elimination bracket using the following criteria from pool play results. Note this process continues and does not start over if a tie is broken when three or more teams are tied.
1. Winning percentage.
2. Number of wins.
3. Number of losses.
4. Winning percentage of tied teams versus each other.
5. Average runs allowed.
6. Average run differential with a max/min of +/- 8 per game.
7. USSSA points.
8. Date team entered the USSSA database.

 

[Cecelia]

That's what I thought. Thanks for answering. I wasn't talking about the next pool play, I was talking about bracket play. I would have put my entire bat inventory on the answer that you just gave me and I would still have my inventory.

I'm not really sure what point it is you're trying to make, but you are kind of acting like a jerk. But I guess you probably don't much care about that. The question about the point differential came up immediately after the last pool play game, not after we'd lost our first bracket game. Sorry to ruin your "gotcha" moment.

And you know why I think more people don't post on this forum? It's because of folks like you who aren't really interested in helping. You're just interested in belittling others and making them look stupid. Thanks for that.

 

[29dad]

I tend to disagree with the majority. I think run differential is a much better tiebreaker than runs allowed. I've never understood why a 13-3 win is less impressive than 3-2. Plus, as someone mentioned, placing the importance on runs allowed means that coaches will be less inclined to use their number 2 or 3 pitchers in pool games. Anyway, just my own personal pet peeve. I don't lose any sleep over it.

 

[obbay]

I'm not really sure what point it is you're trying to make, but you are kind of acting like a jerk. But I guess you probably don't much care about that. The question about the point differential came up immediately after the last pool play game, not after we'd lost our first bracket game. Sorry to ruin your "gotcha" moment.

What he's alluding to is that parents have a tendency to get rabid when the rules work in someone else's favor- but they are still the rules. If your team had won the tournament, he (we) didn't think you'd be as bothered by the run differential issue.
I had a LL game where the other coach tried to change the rules in the last inning to allow his team to get more runs. Ordinarily he was a reasonable guy but when we insisted we wouldn't change the rules for this one game, he went ballistic! Wouldn't shake hands at the end of the game. that was over a year ago and I still wonder what he was thinking....

 

[Cecelia]

What he's alluding to is that parents have a tendency to get rabid when the rules work in someone else's favor- but they are still the rules. If your team had won the tournament, he (we) didn't think you'd be as bothered by the run differential issue.
I had a LL game where the other coach tried to change the rules in the last inning to allow his team to get more runs. Ordinarily he was a reasonable guy but when we insisted we wouldn't change the rules for this one game, he went ballistic! Wouldn't shake hands at the end of the game. that was over a year ago and I still wonder what he was thinking....

Well, you can see by my posts that you were both wrong. I was not "rabid" nor did this issue bother me just because we lost our first bracket game. I was merely wondering. I'm sorry I shared how I felt about it on this board.

Perhaps actually reading what is written and taking it in the spirit in which it is written would be the kinder thing to do.

 

[CoreSoftball20]

I'm not really sure what point it is you're trying to make, but you are kind of acting like a jerk. But I guess you probably don't much care about that. The question about the point differential came up immediately after the last pool play game, not after we'd lost our first bracket game. Sorry to ruin your "gotcha" moment.

And you know why I think more people don't post on this forum? It's because of folks like you who aren't really interested in helping. You're just interested in belittling others and making them look stupid. Thanks for that.

Sorry you feel that way as not meant to come off that way. Sometimes I can get a little short with people as I deal with the public a lot during a day and can be a little stressful. But how many times did people have to post that the game is over after the winning run scored. Tie breakers do not change basic rules of the game. All teams played by the same rules and all rules were known to everybody. Seemed like you were searchin for somebody to say you were cheated.

BTW, your post wasn't Saturday night asking about the tiebreaker rule, it was Sunday night after the tourney.

So again, sorry if you think I came off short with you.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

I tend to disagree with the majority. I think run differential is a much better tiebreaker than runs allowed. I've never understood why a 13-3 win is less impressive than 3-2. Plus, as someone mentioned, placing the importance on runs allowed means that coaches will be less inclined to use their number 2 or 3 pitchers in pool games. Anyway, just my own personal pet peeve. I don't lose any sleep over it.

Using run differential motivates coaches to keep their best hitters and pitcher in the game.

I prefer runs allowed over scored or differential, but am more concerned whether all the teams play each other. I hate tie breakers being used when teams didn't face the same opponents.