Poorly written or not?

[SoCal_Dad]

ASA recently published a rule clarification because the wording on a sentence was "hard to understand" and "not written as clearly as we may like." MTR thinks it is "quite clear" and doesn't know "how it can be any clearer." I'd like to hear what others think.

Umpires and people familiar with the rule, please just post whether you think the wording is fine or not. I'd like everyone else to post what they think the highlighted portion on appeal plays means.

B. No run shall be scored if the third out of the inning is the result of:
1. A batter-runner being called out prior to reaching first base or any other runner forced out due to the batter becoming a batter-runner. On an appeal play, the force out is determined when the appeal is made, not when the infraction occurred.

 

[Greenmonsters]

ASA recently published a rule clarification because the wording on a sentence was "hard to understand" and "not written as clearly as we may like." MTR thinks it is "quite clear" and doesn't know "how it can be any clearer." I'd like to hear what others think.

Umpires and people familiar with the rule, please just post whether you think the wording is fine or not. I'd like everyone else to post what they think the highlighted portion on appeal plays means.

B. No run shall be scored if the third out of the inning is the result of:
1. A batter-runner being called out prior to reaching first base or any other runner forced out due to the batter becoming a batter-runner. On an appeal play, the force out is determined when the appeal is made, not when the infraction occurred.

A. I have no idea what it means.

B. The way the part I bolded is written, the run would count, even if the batter/runner was out, if the umpire called the batter/runner "Out" after the batter/runner had passed first base.

 

[canyonjoe]

The way I read it is that if you had R1 and R3 and the batter got a hit but the R1 misses second base and you appeal R1 is out, but the run scores. Or if the batter misses first and you appeal that the same thing.

It is not worded very well so it could also mean I am wrong.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Not clear to me.

 

[mike s]

It could mean when the coach or player "makes" the appeal to the umpire or it could refer to what is actually being appealed and where the runners were at that time. In other words poorly written, means whatever Blue decides it means, and what phase the moon is in.

 

[CJ D]

We had a similar situation just like this at state last year, and I think is the same thing. 2 outs, runner at 3rd...batter pops up to infield. Runner runs home. Batter assumed not only out, but foul ball as well, and just kinda walks towards first base. Runner crosses home. Ball comes down in fair territory , but hits pitchers glove and rolls foul. Batter is still not hustling. Pitcher gets to ball and throws to first. Batter called safe. Appeal is made...batter is called out. Run still counts...."delayed out" is cited....never heard of it, but ok.

 

[Comp]

We had a similar situation just like this at state last year, and I think is the same thing. 2 outs, runner at 3rd...batter pops up to infield. Runner runs home. Batter assumed not only out, but foul ball as well, and just kinda walks towards first base. Runner crosses home. Ball comes down in fair territory , but hits pitchers glove and rolls foul. Batter is still not hustling. Pitcher gets to ball and throws to first. Batter called safe. Appeal is made...batter is called out. Run still counts...."delayed out" is cited....never heard of it, but ok.

Wrong, batter never reached 1st safely, no run scores.

 

[Comp]

A. I have no idea what it means.

B. The way the part I bolded is written, the run would count, even if the batter/runner was out, if the umpire called the batter/runner "Out" after the batter/runner had passed first base.

Here is an example I found online.

Force out. When an appeal is the third out of an inning and is a force out, no runs will score. The force is reinstated when a forced runner retreats toward her original base and the runner may be put out if a fielder tags the runner or the base to which she is forced. If the batter-runner is retired before reaching first base, all force outs are eliminated. In ASA, on an appeal play, the force out is determined when the appeal is made, not when the infraction occurred.

In NFHS, NCAA, USSSA FP and USSSA SP, the status of a runner on a force play is based on whether she was forced or not forced at the time she missed the base. If the runner were forced when she missed the base, the play is still a force play when the appeal is made. Play 1: R3 is on third and R1 is on first with one out when B1 hits safely to right field. R3 scores but R1 misses second and advances safely to third as B1 is thrown out at second for the second out. The defensive team then successfully appeals that R1 missed second base and R1 is out for the third out of the inning. Ruling 1: In ASA, since the force was removed at the time of the appeal (even though it was in effect at the time of the infraction), R3’s run scores.

In NFHS, NCAA, USSSA FP and USSSA SP, since the force was in effect at the time of the infraction, the appeal at second on R1 is a force out so R3’s run is nullified.

 

[Crabby_Bob]

ASA recently published a rule clarification because the wording on a sentence was "hard to understand" and "not written as clearly as we may like." MTR thinks it is "quite clear" and doesn't know "how it can be any clearer." I'd like to hear what others think.

Umpires and people familiar with the rule, please just post whether you think the wording is fine or not. I'd like everyone else to post what they think the highlighted portion on appeal plays means.

B. No run shall be scored if the third out of the inning is the result of:
1. A batter-runner being called out prior to reaching first base or any other runner forced out due to the batter becoming a batter-runner. On an appeal play, the force out is determined when the appeal is made, not when the infraction occurred.

A. I have no idea what it means.

B. The way the part I bolded is written, the run would count, even if the batter/runner was out, if the umpire called the batter/runner "Out" after the batter/runner had passed first base.

Need to remember that the batter-runner is not forced but other runners may be forced by the batter putting the ball in play. I have no trouble with the portion that was highlighted. JMHO: The rule could be made clearer by referring to the batter-runner touching first base rather than reaching it because the BR can be called out on appeal for missing the bag. That appeal could negate runs.

As Comp has pointed out, the status of the runner [ASA] is determined at the time of the appeal, not at the time of the infraction.

 

[MTR]

On an appeal play, the force out is determined when the appeal is made, not when the infraction occurred.

I do believe it is simple. IMO, all you have to do is read and apply what is written and not try to outthink it or make any assumptions.

Anyone have a better way to word it?