Pitch count

[Rick Pauly]

If associations were truly worried about young pitchers and pitch counts I would suggest they look at the size of the ball, the weight of the ball, the pitching distance, and age.
Most leagues graduate from the 11" ball/35 ft. to the 12" ball and move to 40 ft. at the 12U level. This combination change is huge. I think this is not always healthy.
Lots of girls are not mature enough for this big jump. Certainly it adds a lot of stress to the body and IMHO it often leads to the development of some poor mechanics. The body will find a way to get the heavier ball 40 ft. but it may not be pretty.
Of course there are some very mature 12U girls----in that case let the parents make the decision to move them up to 14U.
How about 10U using an even smaller (10 inch) diameter/lighter/softer ball. I'll bet their mechanics would be much easier to control......forget the disadvantage to the hitters, just teach them how to hit.

Ever notice how great a young pitchers mechanics are when they throw dry (without a ball) and then how they can't duplicate those mechanics when you put a ball in their hand?

 

[bigdaddy]

Rick,

I agree with the premise of making the change from 35/11 to 40/12 more gradual.

I think that the difference between dry throwing and throwing a ball can be explained (at least partially) by the change in focus. When you put a ball in their hand they begin to think about speed and location...no such "worries" when dry throwing.

Keith

 

[BusterT]

There are several factors that contribute to injury. Mechanics, physical makeup (genetics), and physical condition are major factors. Dictating arbitrary pitch counts in fastpitch softball makes no sense at all - at any age. Limiting INNINGS (as some leagues do) IMO is the best method. Inning limits prevent overzealous rec. league coaches from gaining too much of an advantage by using only one skilled pitcher. The intent is to develop other pitchers instead of "riding one horse". Counting pitches (as in baseball) is strictly a health issue. Even for a teenage boy, that number is all over the roadmap, and depends a lot on genetic makeup and conditioning. Aside from health issues, benchmarking a pitch count for any pitcher is helpful in determining "how full their tank is". If their count gets up early, and you know they are only good for X number of pitches, you can plan accordingly = bull pen.

Young pitchers should be taught to use their legs as much as their arm. The legs and torso area are some of the strongest muscles in the body - why not take advantage of that? If a young (12u and below) pitcher's arm (shoulder/elbow) is developing pain, she is probably using poor mechanics. A pitcher who's legs give out before anything else will be your work horse in the long run. Pain during use (not soreness the next day) is a red flag that something is wrong.

Parents need to be in control of their kid's health. Know what you daughter can do. If she's done after three innings, the coach needs to pull her. But, if she's a strong girl in good shape, good mechanics, etc., three games in a row may just be getting her warmed up. In travel ball, the three inning pitcher will ultimately be pushed aside in favor of a stronger kid.

 

[sluggers]

A post in Ken's blog is causing me to re-evaluate this whole "pitch them 'till they drop" mentality of softball.

There is a 2005 study showing that the shoulder stress on softball pitchers is the same as for baseball pitchers. The idea that softball pitching is innately safer than baseball pitching is nonsense.

Why don't we have more softball pitching injuries? Probably because kids stop pitching around 22 YOA, and therefore don't have enough time to really mess up the arm.

 

[BusterT]

It would be interesting to see a study comparing the number of injuries in baseball vs. softball which were DIRECTLY ATTRIBUTABLE TO pitching at the college level. I have seen many baseball pitchers require Tommy Johns surgery, but I have never heard of a softball pitcher having that surgery - NOT to say some haven't. I've seen/heard of rotator cuff problems in softball, but never to the extent of baseball. Maybe female pitchers know their limits better than the boys?

I'm convinced it's NOT a one size fits all solution. Every kid is different, so mechanics that would destroy one kid's arm might be fine for another. That's assuming they are both staying within the realm of using accepted "absolutes" in their mechanics. For instance, a turn-over drop may be effortless for one girl, but another gets elbow pain using what appears to be the same mechanics. That girl may use a peel drop to avoid the pain issue. Different strokes.

 

[Rick Pauly]

I think that if all pitchers had shoulders developed like the Olympic swimmers there would be a lot less injuries.

IMHO, poor mechanics are probably more at cause for injuries than elevated pitch counts. Note how mechanics tend to fall apart when the pitcher gets physically tired----need to stop pitching before this point in time. The pitchers body will tell them this---now the pitcher and her coach need to listen.

 

[bgecoach]

my dd pitched a four hit (i know the hit count has nothing to do with it, i'm just bragging) 11 inning high school game when she was a 15 y/o sophmore. she started the next game the following night. she has pitched in as many as five games in one weekend. these young ladies will have injuries, bumb knees, messed up wrists and bad shoulders from playing sports just like we have lingering injuries from when we played sports. just kind of goes with the territory.

the thing that worries me is injuries that are a result of fatigue. any player will loose focus and let poor mechanics creep in when they start to get tired. it's important for coaches to watch for signs of fatigue and make sure that the pitcher is still maintaning focus and mechanics. no win is more important than your pitchers health.

also watch for signs from the pitchers... rubbing their shoulders, shaking their wrists, bending their knee... remember, there's a lot more to pitching than just a shoulder. lot of impact on feet, knees, hips, etc. like i mentioned in ken's blog, my dd has lost her toenail on her big toe twice from the impact of a long season.

 

[halskinner]

The first signs a pitcher is tired.

also watch for signs from the pitchers... rubbing their shoulders, shaking their wrists, bending their knee... remember, there's a lot more to pitching than just a shoulder. lot of impact on feet, knees, hips, etc. like i mentioned in ken's blog, my dd has lost her toenail on her big toe twice from the impact of a long season.

Here are the first two that will show a pitcher is tiring out and should be pulled.

1. Loss of grip strength. All of a sudden, everything is too low or in the dirt, especially dropballs and fastballs. Have her squeeze your hand as hard as she can at the start of the game. Do it agaon on the middle and at the end. Notice any loss of strength and 'wincing' as she does this.

The tendons / muscles and ligamates in the fingers and hand are the smallest and weakest. They will show the signs of fatigue first, BEFORE the shoulders and BEFORE the legs.

2. The next most common indicator is - the pitcher making a fist a few times right after a pitch. This almost always means there is inflammation of the tendons going through the wrist. She has pitched too much already and needs to come out NOW!

 

[bgecoach]

it's also important to remember most pitchers don't want to be pulled. don't ask them "are you okay?" and take them for their word if they are showing signs of fatigue. i've seen my dd in tears when she was having back problems and she would be saying "i'm fine, i don't need to come out."