need help/suggestions about our ASA league

[n10sivern]

this is going to be long so bear with me please. i'm on the board of directors for my daughters softball league. our recreational league and the travel teams are all ASA and we play mostly ASA tournaments. i have no faith in the state and local ASA reps so i figured i'd ask here. what exactly are we to expect in return from ASA? the guy over our region is very biased towards his teams. not only is he the regional ASA rep, but he is also president of a city's softball league and coaches his own tournament teams. that right there to me is a conflict of interest. as we all know, certain holidays/weekends draw in more people for bigger tournaments. he determines who gets to pick their tourney dates according to who had the most enrollment the previous year in their softball leagues. he is president of the league in the largest city in the area so he wins every year. my city has never hosted a district or state tournament. we had 3 fields but the city is slowly taking over our fields to build a municipal complex and are planning on building us a new complex. we are down to 2 fields now. at the last meeting that determined tournaments, he had a printout that showed which cities had hosted district/state tournaments in the past (we had hosted none). we wanted to host one of the bigger tournaments but he said we couldn't because we only had 2 fields and would be getting a new complex in the future. we informed him we had already agreed with the county to be able to use a complex 5 miles away that is 3 years old and has 4 fields. yet again we were denied. the next town over got the district tournament. the president of that league is good friends with him and they only have 2 frigging fields. also, all the entry fees for district and state tournaments go to ASA. at $300 a pop for 20-40 teams that is a chunk of change. the only thing that comes out of that money is umpire fees. where does the rest of the money go to and what is it used for? makes me wonder how all of his tournament teams have no fees associated with them and everything is paid for on their travel tournaments. they all went to disney last year for free. we just got into a big argument with him over insurance. he expected us to pay almost $200 a team (for rec league) for insurance. i don't mind that for the tournament teams but that is a bit much for 3 months of rec ball. we asked if we could have insurance through another company and he said no. then we asked if there were different deductible options and he said no. after some research, we can use a different company and ASA's insurance does offer different deductibles. ASA gets money back if you use bollinger's insurance, but where does that money go? we went against him and got insurance from farm bureau for $400 for all of the rec teams and ASA's bollinger insurance for the tournament teams. last i heard he is not even on speaking terms with our league president. i'm at a loss of what to do. the state president is real big buddies with our regional rep so i don't think he would be much help. it seems we are trapped in the good ole boy buddy system and we aren't one of the good ole boys. i think we may try to start an USFA based rec league next year and just get away from ASA entirely. all we do is pay money to them and we get nothing back in return. there are several other cities that have already stated they are tired of the crap with ASA and are willing to leave for a different organization. any suggestions?

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[n10sivern]

utrip is not big here at all for softball. USFA is coming on pretty strong here though. thats our next best option

 

[MTR]

i'm on the board of directors for my daughters softball league. our recreational league and the travel teams are all ASA and we play mostly ASA tournaments. i have no faith in the state and local ASA reps so i figured i'd ask here. what exactly are we to expect in return from ASA? the guy over our region is very biased towards his teams. not only is he the regional ASA rep, but he is also president of a city's softball league and coaches his own tournament teams. that right there to me is a conflict of interest.

It isn't unless you have evidence there is. Also, please remember you are dealing with locals and there are many allegiances of which often ASA is not the top priority.

as we all know, certain holidays/weekends draw in more people for bigger tournaments. he determines who gets to pick their tourney dates according to who had the most enrollment the previous year in their softball leagues. he is president of the league in the largest city in the area so he wins every year. my city has never hosted a district or state tournament. we had 3 fields but the city is slowly taking over our fields to build a municipal complex and are planning on building us a new complex. we are down to 2 fields now. at the last meeting that determined tournaments, he had a printout that showed which cities had hosted district/state tournaments in the past (we had hosted none). we wanted to host one of the bigger tournaments but he said we couldn't because we only had 2 fields and would be getting a new complex in the future. we informed him we had already agreed with the county to be able to use a complex 5 miles away that is 3 years old and has 4 fields. yet again we were denied. the next town over got the district tournament. the president of that league is good friends with him and they only have 2 frigging fields. also, all the entry fees for district and state tournaments go to ASA. at $300 a pop for 20-40 teams that is a chunk of change. the only thing that comes out of that money is umpire fees. where does the rest of the money go to and what is it used for? makes me wonder how all of his tournament teams have no fees associated with them and everything is paid for on their travel tournaments. they all went to disney last year for free.

Really? You seem to have a lot of accusations. Got anything other than presumptions and hearsay? Unfortunately, it is not uncommon to basically go with what you know is going to work. Sometimes there are friendships involved, sometimes it is only perceived simply because they have to have a working relationship. $300 a tournament is not that outrageous, common in many areas and low in some.

And it isn't only umpires though the umpire fees will make a deep cut in that money. For example, for a 20-team, double elimination tournament, the umpire & UIC would cost about $2,500 in this area. Add pool play/4GG and you can add at least another $1,200 to that amount. Depending on the level of the tournament, it may also require an ASA rep, Tournament Director fees to use the fields, additional fees to accommodate the overtime incurred by maintenance crews, use of lights, a refundable deposit for clean-up, if needed. Some area may offer a donation or fee for additional/required security/police presence and medical/training staff, etc. There is also the cost of any awards or berths for winning teams.

Please don't return with a litany of "we don't get that" as I can only address what occurs in areas with which I am familiar.

we just got into a big argument with him over insurance. he expected us to pay almost $200 a team (for rec league) for insurance. i don't mind that for the tournament teams but that is a bit much for 3 months of rec ball. we asked if we could have insurance through another company and he said no. then we asked if there were different deductible options and he said no. after some research, we can use a different company and ASA's insurance does offer different deductibles. ASA gets money back if you use bollinger's insurance, but where does that money go?

Really? Citations, please. You do understand this is a business and there are taxes and expenses, even for organizations with non-profit status. Web sites and associated apps and services offered through them are neither free or cheap. Yes, Bollinger and many other companies "return" some profits to their larger customers in the form of sponsorships and services like a lunch or banquet at a clinic or workshop. When an organization has a meeting, clinic or workshop, there is often a fee or required "donation" to the organization which owns/operates the facility. Then there are the fees to the regional, territory or national level boards for the services they provide.

we went against him and got insurance from farm bureau for $400 for all of the rec teams and ASA's bollinger insurance for the tournament teams. last i heard he is not even on speaking terms with our league president.

Good for you, I do like it when people do for themselves. I'm not a believer of the "you have to use our's or go home" policies. I think they are absurd, but again, that is not ASA. I do, understand the preference of an associated insurance company when dealing with travel ball. It is easier to confirm the premium is up to date and valid especially when dealing with folks from many different areas with whom you are not familiar. That is ASA.

i'm at a loss of what to do. the state president is real big buddies with our regional rep so i don't think he would be much help. it seems we are trapped in the good ole boy buddy system and we aren't one of the good ole boys. i think we may try to start an USFA based rec league next year and just get away from ASA entirely. all we do is pay money to them and we get nothing back in return. there are several other cities that have already stated they are tired of the crap with ASA and are willing to leave for a different organization. any suggestions?

I still haven't read the word "commissioner" in your post. Have you taken your concerns to the State/Metro ASA commissioner? In writing with a copy going to the Regional Director or OKC? Don't know if you will get all the answers you want, but it sounds like you have not exhausted all your resources.

 

[marriard]

i'm at a loss of what to do. the state president is real big buddies with our regional rep so i don't think he would be much help. it seems we are trapped in the good ole boy buddy system and we aren't one of the good ole boys. i think we may try to start an USFA based rec league next year and just get away from ASA entirely. all we do is pay money to them and we get nothing back in return. there are several other cities that have already stated they are tired of the crap with ASA and are willing to leave for a different organization. any suggestions?

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1. Document everything. Without documentation, notes, meeting minutes, emails, time lines, etc you are never getting anything done. More detail the better.

2. Concisely and objectively detail your issues and problems and then put in suggestions for a solution to these issues. Nothing is worse than hearing people complain about a situation if they are just complaining, don't have organized arguments and are not offering some sort of reasonable solution.

3. If others are having similar issues, join forces in presenting your issues. Work with them closely especially if you think it may get to the point where you have to move leagues. A united front is harder to ignore.

4. Work your way up the hierarchy. Inform each level that you will be going up the chain if you are not getting appropriate responses. At some point you will also need to include the 'we are leaving'

5. Get out. If ASA is really giving you nothing, then get together with other with similar issues and move to another regulated body. The other way is to volunteer for the district leadership roles yourself. Different league/sport but one year we mobbed the annual meeting, voted in everyone we wanted by force of numbers and made major changes to the way a sport was run.

 

[Momo'sDad]

this is going to be long so bear with me please. i'm on the board of directors for my daughters softball league. our recreational league and the travel teams are all ASA and we play mostly ASA tournaments. i have no faith in the state and local ASA reps so i figured i'd ask here. what exactly are we to expect in return from ASA? the guy over our region is very biased towards his teams. not only is he the regional ASA rep, but he is also president of a city's softball league and coaches his own tournament teams. that right there to me is a conflict of interest. as we all know, certain holidays/weekends draw in more people for bigger tournaments. he determines who gets to pick their tourney dates according to who had the most enrollment the previous year in their softball leagues. he is president of the league in the largest city in the area so he wins every year. my city has never hosted a district or state tournament. we had 3 fields but the city is slowly taking over our fields to build a municipal complex and are planning on building us a new complex. we are down to 2 fields now. at the last meeting that determined tournaments, he had a printout that showed which cities had hosted district/state tournaments in the past (we had hosted none). we wanted to host one of the bigger tournaments but he said we couldn't because we only had 2 fields and would be getting a new complex in the future. we informed him we had already agreed with the county to be able to use a complex 5 miles away that is 3 years old and has 4 fields. yet again we were denied. the next town over got the district tournament. the president of that league is good friends with him and they only have 2 frigging fields. also, all the entry fees for district and state tournaments go to ASA. at $300 a pop for 20-40 teams that is a chunk of change. the only thing that comes out of that money is umpire fees. where does the rest of the money go to and what is it used for? makes me wonder how all of his tournament teams have no fees associated with them and everything is paid for on their travel tournaments. they all went to disney last year for free. we just got into a big argument with him over insurance. he expected us to pay almost $200 a team (for rec league) for insurance. i don't mind that for the tournament teams but that is a bit much for 3 months of rec ball. we asked if we could have insurance through another company and he said no. then we asked if there were different deductible options and he said no. after some research, we can use a different company and ASA's insurance does offer different deductibles. ASA gets money back if you use bollinger's insurance, but where does that money go? we went against him and got insurance from farm bureau for $400 for all of the rec teams and ASA's bollinger insurance for the tournament teams. last i heard he is not even on speaking terms with our league president. i'm at a loss of what to do. the state president is real big buddies with our regional rep so i don't think he would be much help. it seems we are trapped in the good ole boy buddy system and we aren't one of the good ole boys. i think we may try to start an USFA based rec league next year and just get away from ASA entirely. all we do is pay money to them and we get nothing back in return. there are several other cities that have already stated they are tired of the crap with ASA and are willing to leave for a different organization. any suggestions?

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A few things to think about:

1) Just because the preferred tournament dates go to larger cities, there's nothing stopping you from organizing a tournament of your own. With only 2 fields, though, you have to understand that you're going to be limited in the size of the event you can bring. If the larger county complex is available to you, then schedule an event there, invite all the nearby teams, and then have fun.

2) $300 for a tourney entry is a tremendous bargain. If you're getting a 4-game guarantee, that's $240 just for umpires for a single team playing the minimum number of games. What about facilities rental and other costs?

3) If you don't know the fee structure or sponsorship details of another team, then you have no idea how they finance whatever they are doing.

4) Standard registration for ASA is $15, which includes the insurance with a $250 deductible. It's $24 if you choose the $0 deductible (but I believe leagues are being pressured to eliminate this option). So, assuming 12 players on a rec ball team, yes, that comes to $180 or almost $200 per team.

That covers the player for a full calendar year, so if a rec player continues playing in the summer and/or the fall, then they do NOT have to pay a 2nd ASA registration or insurance fee.

If you wanted to split off the spring rec-ONLY crowd for insurance purposes, I'm sure someone could make it happen, but you wouldn't see much of a savings at all. Instead of $15, maybe you'd only have to pay $12 or 13. It would not be $4.

5) You are not required to play under ASA. Lots of softball leagues don't. You'll get different arguments from different people, but being in a strong softball area, most of the better programs play ASA events almost exclusively. You could say it just depends on the goals of your program, whether we're talking about an individual team, a recreational league, or a travel program. If you don't feel that you're getting a lot for your $15, you're welcome to leave, but if you decide to go with any known organization as opposed to just staying independent, then you will have to pay a registration fee of some kind. You might be a volunteer at your local level, but it's not reasonable to expect that everyone involved at all levels of youth softball is a volunteer.

 

[n10sivern]

I'm sorry for not using the proper terminology. The person that I have an issue with is the district commissioner. Another city complained to the state commissioner who basically told them he backs up the district commissioner 100%, so the complaint went nowhere.

I never once complained about the $300 entry fee. I do know for a fact that the ambulance services donate their time at the larger tournaments for free. I do know for a fact that there is only one facility in the area that charges for field time/tournaments, and we never have tournaments there through ASA. USFA frequently has tournaments there though. Every city here manages their fields and if the tournament is sponsored by one of their youth teams, then the field, maintenance, and everything else is free.

No, we can't have a tournament whenever we want to. If it is going to be an ASA tournament the district commissioner has to approve it. There aren't that many teams in the area that participate in the ASA tournaments. Most of the better teams play USFA for tourney ball. For a tournament with 8u, 10u, 12u, and 14u, there are typically 4-6 teams in each age group. For USFA tournaments there is probably an average of 10 or more. ASA doesn't have much respect around here for tournament ball but is basically the only game in town for rec ball. My complaints are more focused around the rec ball than travel/tournament ball.

I know we are limited with 2 fields. We had more than that but they are slowly dwindling down as the city takes over the complex. Still waiting to have the new complex built. It just doesn't sit very well with me to tell us we can't host a district tournament because we only have 2 fields, but then give the tournament to another city with only 2 fields.

I have left 3 messages at OKC to address the issues that we have but have yet to receive a call back.

 

[sluggers]

there are several other cities that have already stated they are tired of the crap with ASA and are willing to leave for a different organization. any suggestions?

My advice: Leave and go to another organization.

 

[Momo'sDad]

No, we can't have a tournament whenever we want to. If it is going to be an ASA tournament the district commissioner has to approve it. There aren't that many teams in the area that participate in the ASA tournaments. Most of the better teams play USFA for tourney ball. For a tournament with 8u, 10u, 12u, and 14u, there are typically 4-6 teams in each age group. For USFA tournaments there is probably an average of 10 or more. ASA doesn't have much respect around here for tournament ball but is basically the only game in town for rec ball. My complaints are more focused around the rec ball than travel/tournament ball.

I know we are limited with 2 fields. We had more than that but they are slowly dwindling down as the city takes over the complex. Still waiting to have the new complex built. It just doesn't sit very well with me to tell us we can't host a district tournament because we only have 2 fields, but then give the tournament to another city with only 2 fields.

Yes, you can hold a tournament whenever you want. It doesn't have to be sanctioned by anyone. Your rec league can organize it or you as an individual can do it. Get the authorization to use the fields and then go for it. Plenty of rec leagues do this as a fundraiser.

Based on your posts, I don't get why you're upset about not being able to host an ASA tournament. You should be happy.

 

[MTR]

I have left 3 messages at OKC to address the issues that we have but have yet to receive a call back.

Do not waste time with phone calls. Use e-mail and copy anyone in the chain of command.