Lookback Rule on steal with no play

[Big Daddy Michigan]

1. That's not a steal - that's defensive indifference.
2. If the lookback call was made simply because of the rounding, then that is also incorrect.

It is not defensive indifference because they held the ball to stop the runner from scoring, not because they were indifferent.

 

[riseball]

In the context of the OP, and in the game of softball there is no stolen base. There is no attempt due to the runner on 3B. The absence of an attempt is the very definition of indifference. The advance is scored as a fielders choice. To score it otherwise is just cooking the books.

 

[slagothar]

In the context of the OP, and in the game of softball there is no stolen base. There is no attempt due to the runner on 3B. The absence of an attempt is the very definition of indifference. The advance is scored as a fielders choice. To score it otherwise is just cooking the books.

This is how I scored this play for years, but after researching, because the defense had a strategic reason (keeping runner from 3 scoring), the correct scoring is stolen base. OU's softball team had half of their SBs of this variety this year.

 

[JohnnyO]

Defensive Players Intentional Non-action to throw to a base being stolen is Defensive indifference.

 

[slagothar]

Defensive Players Intentional Non-action to throw to a base being stolen is Defensive indifference.

I know this is your opinion, and I understand from where you are coming, but it doesn't change the fact that the correct ruling on the play is "stolen base". I have already provided examples refuting your "no throw = defensive indifference".

 

[riseball]

And this friends and neighbors is why college coaches could care less about High School and TB stats. Cooking in this manner is all too common.

 

[slagothar]

And this friends and neighbors is why college coaches could care less about High School and TB stats. Cooking in this manner is all too common.

Opinion noted. However, you may wish to consult to consult what the NCAA Softball Rules and Interpretations Book (https://www.soconsports.com/fls/400...3-14/softball_stats_manual.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=4000) has to say on the correct way to score:


Rule 14.2.7
Defensive Indifference: Scoring term to describe the
lack of a defensive play on a batter-runner or base runner run-
ning the bases after a batted ball, or a base runner attempting
to steal a base after a pitch when the player’s advance is perceived to have no bearing on the outcome of the game.


In other words, DI rarely occurs. This is how college coaches will score the play; I doubt they consider this cooking the books. I understand your aversion of scoring this play a SB (I share the sentiment), but according to the rules of scoring, it is a SB; please cite the rule that informs you this play should not be scored a SB.

 

[slagothar]

To further clarify (see bolded portion at end which directly addresses the runner on first and third situation):

Rule 14.14.7 To each runner who successfully advances in a dou-
ble- or triple-steal attempt, whether played on or not, as long
as no other runner is put out. If a runner is played on and she
is safe without the aid of an error, she is credited with a stolen
base as are any other runners who safely advance. If a runner is
played on and she is safe by virtue of an error, charge the error
to the fielder and any other runner who advances is safe on a
fielder’s choice. If a runner is played on and she is put out, she
is charged with a caught stealing and any other runner who
advances is safe on a fielder’s choice. If the lead runner fails to
advance but is instead safe at the base she occupied at the time
of the pitch (and no error occurred), credit the trailing runner
who successfully advances with a stolen base.

Also:
Rule 14.15.3, exception 4

With base runners on first and third bases, credit a stolen
base to the runner advancing to second base if no throw
is made even if the advance was immediately after a
base on balls unless defensive indifference applies. (See
Rule 14.2.7.)

 

[GunnerShotgun]

when the player’s advance is perceived to have no bearing on the outcome of the game.

So you would need to know the score of the game. All runs have a bearing on the outcome of the game (until they don't such as the last inning scenarios).

 

[Sweet Lou]

And this friends and neighbors is why college coaches could care less about High School and TB stats. Cooking in this manner is all too common.

1st and 3rd taking 2nd is defensive indifference?
It may be "stat padding" but unless there is a real softball related score reason to not throw to 2nd, I'm not sure how you don't credit an SB in that situation.

I mean it's not the same kind of cooking as crediting an SB on a PB or WP when the runner wasn't going.