Learning and Teaching Hitting

[Da Coach]

.... compare the swings of Derek Jeter and Chipper Jones. You will see that both are as different as night and day

Don't forget that professional athletes are just amazing people. Chipper Jones could probably play forward for the Atlanta Hawks or wide reciever for the Falcons.

I agree that confidence is essential but there are right and wrong ways to do things. Especially for those struggling to hit .300 at 14U.

 

[Mark H]

. compare the swings of Derek Jeter and Chipper Jones. You will see that both are as different as night and day "purist" style teachers would tell you that the other couldn't possibly hit well. But clearly they both do.

Well then Slaught's whole premise of comparing your hitters to elite hitters using Right View would then be flawed if they can all be so different and yet successful.

Seriously, the interesting thing is to study what elite hitters DO have in common rather than what they don't. No question about the importance of the mental side though.

 

[druer]

DaCoach - Chipper/Derek Jeter were just 2 examples, you'll see many/many more of both styles and a bunch in between. But these particular two I brought up because they have virtually NOTHING in common. Chipper has tremendous negative movement at the start of the swing followed by tremendous forward movement with weight shift nearly all the way to the front leg. Jeter is virtually still and rotates around a pole and "squishes the bug" on back leg to keep weight nearly all back. At the end of the day I think all of us who do batting instruction need to take into account the fact that we really don't understand what causes some hitters to absolutely explode through a ball or believe that they can hit any pitch in any location. Just as soon as we think we do understand it physically and can say its because of the rotation or its because of the negative/positive weight shift, there is another elite batter doing exactly the opposite who can also explode through the ball that disproves our physical theory.

Mark - Right View Pro shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that hitters can all be different and yet all successfull. That was my point. The premise for the program isn't that you have to be the same as "everyone else" the premise is that there are different styles and the plan is to find the hitters you are closest to and focus on those positives to help build confidence. If you use the tool to try and "PROVE" that 1 style is right and say "Hey Sally Sue you aren't even close to hitting like Chipper Jones you need to completely change your style and be more like Derek Jeter" then your use of that tool would be wrong.

If you are starting to work with girls that aren't hitting .300 at 14U ... I think it is important that when working with them you teach the style that you have a passion for teaching. If your voice exudes confidence, that will sync in and transfer to them. You have to really believe in what you are teaching and then you will be effective. The more a girls particular body dynamics and abilities line up with that style the more effective she'll be utilizing it. I teach more of a rotational style because I really do well at exuding confidence when I teach that. But that doesn't mean I don't think others can do well learning a linear style from those that believe in, and have a passion for that style. I advocate to every girl/parent I work with that if my style and techniques aren't causing improvement they need to go to any of dozens of instructors who's names/numbers I will give them. [I charge nothing for my lessons so I have no financial motive in what I teach and equally nothing to lose by sending them down the road.]

Ultimately my point wasn't about working with girls who can't hit period and trying to help them avoid things hithcing 3 feet back, turning eyes, and dropping bat to belly before starting to swing. Clearly there are some BAAAAAAD habits out there that need fixed and either style will fix those obvious flaws. That is where you can use either Chipper or Derek to set the example that you better see the ball when the bat makes contact for consistent hitting. My point was too avoid becoming so wrapped up in 1 style that you don't even recognize the other style as valid and completely dismiss it. I have 1 of my students on a 14U team who batted .614 for the teams 3 tournaments this fall. Clearly she can hit, and clearly has confidence. Her coach who happens to be a hitting instructor who teaches linear hitting told her that she didn't like her form and that she wants to start working with her. To me that's just crazy, that's when a "purist" view of batting styles is just way over the top. How do you honestly look a girl in the eye who has hit .614 over a period of 3 complete tournaments, 2 of which you win and say "I think your style is wrong I can teach you a better style." Does she really think she'll hit more than .614 hitting linear instead of rotational?

 

[SBFAMILY]

Just worked a clnic with Bustos. She will be the first to tell you that you can have many different Styles in be a good hitter. I think they used the example everyone can wear their hair different. What she stressed was Mechanic's, those must be sound. She stated everything must be observable or measureable, or why change. Unless a hitting coach follows the above. I tell my kids go find someone else. Anyone can tell you a different way to do something, but they better be able to back it up. Why we use Bat Speed Meters and measure BSI on our hitters.

 

[Mark H]

DaCoach - Chipper/Derek Jeter were just 2 examples, you'll see many/many more of both styles and a bunch in between. But these particular two I brought up because they have virtually NOTHING in common. Chipper has tremendous negative movement at the start of the swing followed by tremendous forward movement with weight shift nearly all the way to the front leg. Jeter is virtually still and rotates around a pole and "squishes the bug" on back leg to keep weight nearly all back. At the end of the day I think all of us who do batting instruction need to take into account the fact that we really don't understand what causes some hitters to absolutely explode through a ball or believe that they can hit any pitch in any location. Just as soon as we think we do understand it physically and can say its because of the rotation or its because of the negative/positive weight shift, there is another elite batter doing exactly the opposite who can also explode through the ball that disproves our physical theory.

Mark - Right View Pro shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that hitters can all be different and yet all successfull. That was my point. The premise for the program isn't that you have to be the same as "everyone else" the premise is that there are different styles and the plan is to find the hitters you are closest to and focus on those positives to help build confidence. If you use the tool to try and "PROVE" that 1 style is right and say "Hey Sally Sue you aren't even close to hitting like Chipper Jones you need to completely change your style and be more like Derek Jeter" then your use of that tool would be wrong.

If you are starting to work with girls that aren't hitting .300 at 14U ... I think it is important that when working with them you teach the style that you have a passion for teaching. If your voice exudes confidence, that will sync in and transfer to them. You have to really believe in what you are teaching and then you will be effective. The more a girls particular body dynamics and abilities line up with that style the more effective she'll be utilizing it. I teach more of a rotational style because I really do well at exuding confidence when I teach that. But that doesn't mean I don't think others can do well learning a linear style from those that believe in, and have a passion for that style. I advocate to every girl/parent I work with that if my style and techniques aren't causing improvement they need to go to any of dozens of instructors who's names/numbers I will give them. [I charge nothing for my lessons so I have no financial motive in what I teach and equally nothing to lose by sending them down the road.]

Ultimately my point wasn't about working with girls who can't hit period and trying to help them avoid things hithcing 3 feet back, turning eyes, and dropping bat to belly before starting to swing. Clearly there are some BAAAAAAD habits out there that need fixed and either style will fix those obvious flaws. That is where you can use either Chipper or Derek to set the example that you better see the ball when the bat makes contact for consistent hitting. My point was too avoid becoming so wrapped up in 1 style that you don't even recognize the other style as valid and completely dismiss it. I have 1 of my students on a 14U team who batted .614 for the teams 3 tournaments this fall. Clearly she can hit, and clearly has confidence. Her coach who happens to be a hitting instructor who teaches linear hitting told her that she didn't like her form and that she wants to start working with her. To me that's just crazy, that's when a "purist" view of batting styles is just way over the top. How do you honestly look a girl in the eye who has hit .614 over a period of 3 complete tournaments, 2 of which you win and say "I think your style is wrong I can teach you a better style." Does she really think she'll hit more than .614 hitting linear instead of rotational?

IMO, elite hitters all have certain things in common from first launch of the bathead into the swing plane till contact. For instance, some may get off the back side in a huge way like Clemente. Others only slightly like Bonds. But they all absolutely do develop a least a little momentum into rotation and as a result, get off the backside. You can see this when they rock back down on to there back foot a little or a lot afterwards.

 

[Mark H]

Just worked a clnic with Bustos. She will be the first to tell you that you can have many different Styles in be a good hitter. I think they used the example everyone can wear their hair different. What she stressed was Mechanic's, those must be sound. She stated everything must be observable or measureable, or why change. Unless a hitting coach follows the above. I tell my kids go find someone else. Anyone can tell you a different way to do something, but they better be able to back it up. Why we use Bat Speed Meters and measure BSI on our hitters.

I agree with all that assuming my interpretation of her words is as she intended them. The measuring is good. Immediate objective feedback is best. Objective feedback is next best. I would suggest not only measuring bat speed. I would also suggest measuring quickness. Commonly done by counting the frames on a standard 30fps video from first movement of the bat head into the swing plane till contact. World class is four frames. Five frames will get you a lot of college fun. Seven frames will get you a lot of inconsistency when you start facing pitchers who throw hard and change speeds since you will have to commit way to early in pitch flight.

To illustrate how bat speed is not the only, or even, IMO, the most important, measure, the fastest bat speeds in the world are generated by men's slow pitch hitters. Reportedly upward of 120mph. Major League Baseball swings are not nearly that fast. But they are a WHOLE lot quicker. Fact is, in fp, the fence just isn't that far and it doesn't take all that much bat speed to clear it. Clearing it by a few feet counts the same as clearing it by 50 feet. I would suggest the goal is to clear it often by something rather than once in awhile by a lot. I would suggest having a quick swing from decision to contact along with "enough" bat speed is a big key to that.

 

[Shawn]

Jeter and Chipper are different, although I wouldn't focus to much on mechanics.

Jeter, I would need to check his stats, has become more a singles hitter. He forces the ball to the right side. And because he does this so often even on good hittable strikes down the middle and somewhat inside. His power numbers have steadily declined, compared to when he was younger.

Jeter's swing is mostly a stroke. Chipper can also take swings that are more of a stroke, although he can also take a more pure swing (more effortless, more efficient, more fluid).

Chipper can do both, and he was very good at mixing the two last year. Even though he missed many games and his HR's numbers weren't real high.

Jeter has turned himself into a one dimensional hitter. Someone similar to him is Pudge Rodriguez. He isn't very big, so like many smaller guys their power number decline with age. Although, he ended up doing the same thing as Jeter, and that is forcing the ball to right field so often that it developed the swing into a stroke and inside/out swing to often. After awhile, it effects your swing and approach.

So it's not just about what you see, when comparing swings. A hitters approach as allot to do with the development of a swing, and mechanics, and depending on how you look at it, it can be for better or worse.

Jeter has always had an awkward swing, he often let the top hand uncock early, stopped, and then swung. Although I'm pretty sure his power numbers have declined over time, and you could say that he is under achieving given his talent in the power department. Although he usually ends up with allot of hits and a good average, I see so many of his swings just dropping the ball in-front of the right fielder.

I'll stop by and check his stats.

A couple of years ago, Pudge hit 10 hr's in spring training. Although whatever he did differently did not last into the season, because of the approach he has developed over the years. He might of had a flashback during spring training and did things he did earlier in his career. Although when the season started he was back into his approach.

Looking at one swing, say in Right View Pro, is one thing. Although if you follow anyone, such as Jeter and take into account his approach in many situations. That tells a different story about the hitter.