Leaning new pitches...

[southwestsoftball]

What do you all feel is the best progression in terms of different pitches. As it stands right now, my dd has just added a change up to her fastball and she is a natural at it. Like all young kids she sometimes leaves that change up hanging in the air sometimes but most of the time she has practiced enough to where its a consistent pitch for her and should be very effective in fall play.

How long do you feel a pitch should be worked on before another pitch in introduced? What should be the 3rd pitch she adds when we do move forward? I planned on having her keep perfecting her change up and working on it hard, as well as developing the speed of her fastball through Novemeber. Then I was thinking of adding a drop ball and working it hard from December until probably March/April.....at which point ( assuming it was ready and consistent) she could use that 3rd pitch in summer tournaments.

Thoughts? If you agree with the progression of Fatsball, Change Up, Drop................what is the next pitch after that you feel we should add? Of course that is a ways off but Im just curious to everyones opinion. We already have a progression we plan to follow but I know everyone is different.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

If I could do it all over again I would have taught her the drop first (before the fastball) and then a change up. When I say drop I am referring to a peel drop. After the peel drop I would have taught her a flip change.

Whatever you teach make sure it has movement. The easiest pitch to hit is a fastball no matter how fast it is.

 

[redhotcoach]

Master it! Then move on, not a second before. A girl can go a long ways with a good drop and change up. There is nothing that losses my respect at tryouts and etc then a young girl who says she has 5 pitches and none of them are good. Unfortunately for them it is the result of poor coaching.
In all of the clinics I have been to, almost all of the ncaa coaches have said that while it is good to have a few pitches, you must have one that dominates. Ricketts has the back door curve, correct me if I am wrong but I think it was Lagenfeld at UCLA that dominated batters with non stop screwballs.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

This is what we did, not saying it is the model for all, but it worked for us.

DD LHP

1. Fastball, easy to learn when starting good mechanics very young. A plus also if she throws hard for her age, speed is a big factor in dominating young. And teaches pin point accuracy where breaking balls young can hang or not break equally from pitch to pitch.

2. Off speed ( not change up ). Again when they are young the off speed ( for mine anyway ) was much easier to learn and control. And young batters had a hard time reading/adjusting to the change in speed. Seems by what I saw young batters adjusted to a true CU easier than a off speed.

3. Screwball for mine, would be a curve for RHP. Working the outside ( away ) from hitters.

4. Back door curve, really a great pitch for a LHP. ( guess you could throw a back door screw RHP ) but I'm not sure the "illusion" would be as appealing because of the flight path from RHP. ( 4.5 would be a curve so I'll lump these together )

5. Drop, this was down on our list only because DD had a natural "tail" on her fastball. Of coarse the tail would only tail about the length of a ball and a half. As she got older, the true drop needed to be learned. ( peel drop )

6. Rise, really seems to me the rise is dying down. The high zone seems to be shrinking, so I guess we were lucky to save this one to near the end.


Notice for us I left the change up out. DD will throw one on occasion but has personally always done better with the off speed. For the masses I'd probably vote for learning the change up before the off speed.

Are we a "master" of all these pitches. Absolutely not. But yes we still work them and some days are better than others.

 

[redhotcoach]

The first three are fastball, change, peel drop, within the first 6 months of pitching. If the pitcher can do a flip change or has great velocity, then the screw is next. The rise comes in next, so that the spins can be perfected and because it follows the whip action of the arm.

Lastly, the curve and rollover drop.

You have to multitask these pitches, split time, and overlap them, why?

Not enough years available when you consider growth plates, etc.
You should spin the pitches as a workout for several weeks to several months before pitching them.
The compare/contrast method helps you learn.
Not all pitches fit all pitchers and you have to find that out.
Pitches work better in combination in games.
Boredom and overuse injuries from too much repetition of the same thing.

While the foundational steps have to be there (a drop curve is no good if it is a mistake curve), but it is not a rigid process that depends on perfection. What if you could not learn to hit before you learned to bunt. That would really suck. Or throw the ball before you could catch it perfectly.

The adage that a pitcher must do the same thing evey time to be good in a game is just not accurate. It is the right combination of sameness and adjustments that create a good athlete. You must have body awareness, not be a robot.

FYI: College coaches don't know squat about pitching or what goes on in travel or how their stars got to be stars before arriving there, so their advice means squat. (Candrea says you only need a rise, drop and change but does he practice that. Heck no. Did it work for Babcock (and Thomas, in CWS too). Heck no.) And all prospects have numerous pitches they say you don't need, so go figure.

My ncaa comment of what coach's are looking for was a direct quote from Erica Beach of New Mexico U. She doesn't know squat about pitching?

From NMU:
Beach played her college ball at Arizona State from 1999-2002. A pitcher and designated player, Beach led the Sun Devils to the NCAA Tournament all four seasons with two Women's College World Series appearances in 1999 and 2002. She was named to the 2002 WCWS All-Tournament Team as a pitcher and was a three-time All-Pac-10 honoree. Also strong in the classroom, Beach was a First Team Verizon Academic All-American in 2001. Beach earned her bachelor's degree in Broadcasting from ASU in 2003.

 

[southwestsoftball]

I live in Albuquerque and visit UNM frequently. I love talking with coach Beach. She definitely knows about pitching. lol Also what that little bio doesnt say is that she started her college coaching career at Ohio State before coming to UNM. She has an awesome personality and my dd loves her and the staff at UNM. Watch out for UNM in 2-3 years. They are a few good recruits away from blowing the doors open in the west.

 

[redhotcoach]

I live in Albuquerque and visit UNM frequently. I love talking with coach Beach. She definitely knows about pitching. lol Also what that little bio doesnt say is that she started her college coaching career at Ohio State before coming to UNM. She has an awesome personality and my dd loves her and the staff at UNM. Watch out for UNM in 2-3 years. They are a few good recruits away from blowing the doors open in the west.

Absolutely! She is great, I have to believe she brings the best out of girls....if she has to beat it out of them

 

[CoachFP]

The first three are fastball, change, peel drop, within the first 6 months of pitching. If the pitcher can do a flip change or has great velocity, then the screw is next. The rise comes in next, so that the spins can be perfected and because it follows the whip action of the arm.

Lastly, the curve and rollover drop.

You have to multitask these pitches, split time, and overlap them, why?

Not enough years available when you consider growth plates, etc.
You should spin the pitches as a workout for several weeks to several months before pitching them.
The compare/contrast method helps you learn.
Not all pitches fit all pitchers and you have to find that out.
Pitches work better in combination in games.
Boredom and overuse injuries from too much repetition of the same thing.

While the foundational steps have to be there (a drop curve is no good if it is a mistake curve), but it is not a rigid process that depends on perfection. What if you could not learn to hit before you learned to bunt. That would really suck. Or throw the ball before you could catch it perfectly.

The adage that a pitcher must do the same thing evey time to be good in a game is just not accurate. It is the right combination of sameness and adjustments that create a good athlete. You must have body awareness, not be a robot.

FYI: College coaches don't know squat about pitching or what goes on in travel or how their stars got to be stars before arriving there, so their advice means squat. (Candrea says you only need a rise, drop and change but does he practice that. Heck no. Did it work for Babcock (and Thomas, in CWS too). Heck no.) And all prospects have numerous pitches they say you don't need, so go figure.

Screwball, you say that college coaches don't know squat about pitching or what goes on in travel..... I was intrigued by that. Do I think Candrea knows anything about pitching? I would say not too much. When a majority of them sign a pitcher it is based on the success that pitcher has in travel ball and high school and less on what that pitcher is projected to do in college. I have seen several cases where high profile teams have signed pitchers that have no business even attempting that level of ball, but their numbers in high school etc were fantastic. But they were going to fail at their school because they lacked the fundamentals to get "good" hitters out consistently. But I do disagree with your listing all of these pitches that pitchers should be throwing. I know that there are very few pitchers that can master more than two or three pitches. You can have as many as you want but the ability to have all of them as top flight "go to" pitches is limited by the human body. The notion of 5 or more pitches in a pitcher's repetoire is the biggest hoax in all of softball, yet there are so many learned and respected people, even like yourself, who subscribe to this fallacy.

 

[chinamigarden]

Candrea said in response to a question about pitching to a batters weakness., "A pitcher should pitch to her strengths not to a batters weakness, if a pitcher can command a Rise, Drop and change what else does she need."
Nothing wrong with those three pitches. What Candrea did not say is, I will never recruit a pitcher who commands a pitch other then... And he certainly never said, I would never recruit a pitcher who doesn't command...

to continue to regurgitate his comment without context is disingenuous

 

[sluggers]

As soon as you find a pitcher with command of a rise, drop, screw and curve, give me a call.

I rarely see TB pitchers with command of one pitch. Parents jump from pitch to pitch without every taking the time to perfect one good movement pitch.