In my own words

[Not_Enuf_Mustard]

I’ve been trying to educate myself on this and other sites about rotational hitting. I think the hardest thing for me to grasp was the circular hand path aspect. From that statement you know I was taught “hands straight to the ball”. My girls love this sport and I owe it to them to stop the chain of just passing down what was taught before. I was taught all the old buzz words or phrases….Level swing, take the knob to the ball, squish the bug and so on. The buck stops here.

Two terms I am having a hard time grasping is bat lag vs. bat drag.
Bat drag
If you go with the “hands straight to the ball” technique, is that motion of pushing your hands (or knob) toward the ball, dragging the bat through the zone? The barrel of the bat is late in starting it's circular motion.
Bat lag
I think this is just the position of the bat during a phase of the swing. Knob toward the pitcher, barrel toward the catcher. At this point the barrel has started in its circular path towards the zone, doesn’t stop, and continues through the zone. If the bad actually lagged any time during the swing you would think it would interrupt that circular path…no? Is getting that barrel out there early what makes you “long through the zone”?

I was either taught, or assumed that getting the barrel started in a circular path too early was associated with casting. What I think casting is now is changing the elbow angle too early before contact or trying to get to extension prior to contact.

Am I close on any of that?

One other thing, on the batspeed.com site, he mentions torque. To me he makes it sound like one arm is putting force one way while the other arm applies force in the opposite. I always thought the torque was just generated by flexing the wrists to whip the bat head through the zone.

I'm sure this has all been rehashed tons of times here so bare with me. I think putting it downing my own words my get it to sink in better.

 

[Not_Enuf_Mustard]

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[Tewks]

Your definitions of drag and lag seem fine to me. The casting part is where I don't completely follow. Which elbow are you talking about when you say the elbow changes angles?

I associate casting with the arms getting extended as an initiation of the swing. The swing gets long with the arms early when the rear hip drives.

 

[ifubuildit]

Mustard

Your not being ignored. Some people are just lurkers and want to read what is being posted in an effort to learn. Others like me will respond when time permits. You have come to a good spot to get your questions answered. There are many knowledgeable people here.

For your review read the post How to fix elbows before hands thread. That deals with Bat drag. Bat drag is when the back elbow gets in front of the top hand and dumps the barrel of the bat down as it comes around the corner towards the ball. It also leaves the batter in a weak hitting position. The result is usually the hitter swinging under the ball or popping the ball up.

Your definition of Bat Lag is pretty good. As for the THT concept over at batspeed it is not something that I advocate doing in a swing as I feel it leads to an inconsistent swing plane in young hitters. I have tried it myself both left handed and right handed and it doesn't feel right when I swing. Would you try to do that when taking an AX and chopping down a tree?

Sure. If you wanted sore wrist. Difficult enough to get a young player to swing correctly without throwing in the concept of THT. There are a lot of other good discussion points on the batspeed site. A lot to learn there too.

Hope this helps.

Dana.

 

[ifubuildit]

Your definitions of drag and lag seem fine to me. The casting part is where I don't completely follow. Which elbow are you talking about when you say the elbow changes angles?

I associate casting with the arms getting extended as an initiation of the swing. The swing gets long with the arms early when the rear hip drives.

Agree with that statement

 

[Tewks]

As for the THT concept over at batspeed it is not something that I advocate doing in a swing as I feel it leads to an inconsistent swing plane in young hitters. I have tried it myself both left handed and right handed and it doesn't feel right when I swing. Would you try to do that when taking an AX and chopping down a tree?

Sure. If you wanted sore wrist. Difficult enough to get a young player to swing correctly without throwing in the concept of THT. There are a lot of other good discussion points on the batspeed site. A lot to learn there too.

Which cut are you making with the axe? I've never cut down a tree, but I used to watch the ESPN Great Outdoor Games. There is a down angle "strike" and an up angle "strike" to get the wedge. Is either good? Maybe the up, definitely not the down.

Here's a question... Is a young players swinging correct at all if there is an absence of hand torque. I don't agree with Mr. Mankin's PLT and THT, but there is definitely something going on with the hands!

 

[Mark H]

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Analysis

 

[JC heir]

not enuf- if you google Chris oleary, & go to rotational hitting 101, he does an excellent job of showing & defining the swing, as well as bat lag, bat drag, etc.

 

[Not_Enuf_Mustard]

Your definitions of drag and lag seem fine to me. The casting part is where I don't completely follow. Which elbow are you talking about when you say the elbow changes angles?

I associate casting with the arms getting extended as an initiation of the swing. The swing gets long with the arms early when the rear hip drives.

Thanks Tewks. I guess I was thinking if the angle of either elbow changed it would mean the hands were where headed towards the extended position too early. You worded it much better. Thanks for the input.

 

[Not_Enuf_Mustard]

not enuf- if you google Chris oleary, & go to rotational hitting 101, he does an excellent job of showing & defining the swing, as well as bat lag, bat drag, etc.

JC, thanks. I hadn't been to O'Leary's site before.

This comment had me a little taken back:
"I think the whole linear vs. rotational thing is largely overblown and mostly irrelevant. I think the real, and more relevant, debate is between connection vs. extension rather than linear vs. rotational."

Finally seeing that the hand path was circular in rotational hitting was HUGE for me. With a straight hand path I find it hard to get the barrel of the bat started early enough. It would seem the earlier you get started accelerating the bat head the faster you'll be at contact. Am I over thinking that?