Illegal pitch called, and a scoring question.

[InsidePitch]

Scenario, early morning game, foul ball into the grass and pitcher gets the ball back wet. She rolls the ball in the dirt and gets called for an IP for putting a foreign substance on the ball. She said her intention was to get the ball dry and wipe any dirt off on her pants. Anyone know if that is truly an illegal?

Scoring. BR coming from third. Catcher receives an off line throw and dives to make the play. Runner slides into the glove dislodging the ball. E-2?

 

[Comp]

Dirt is not considered to be a foreign substance to the ball, however, the pitcher is not allowed to apply the dirt directly to the ball or rub the ball in the dirt. If the ball came back wet the pitcher should have requested the umpire to change out the ball as being unplayable.

 

[InsidePitch]

I knew you could not apply any kind of powder to the ball but questioned how rolling the ball in the dirt could result in an IP before it was thrown. Seems to me that until it was delivered or she was on the rubber to deliver it, saying there was a foreign substance on the ball was premature. She ended up wiping it on her pants and using it anyway.

Anyone know about scoring a ball jarred lose during a play at the plate?

 

[Greenmonsters]

Scenario, early morning game, foul ball into the grass and pitcher gets the ball back wet. She rolls the ball in the dirt and gets called for an IP for putting a foreign substance on the ball. She said her intention was to get the ball dry and wipe any dirt off on her pants. Anyone know if that is truly an illegal?

Scoring. BR coming from third. Catcher receives an off line throw and dives to make the play. Runner slides into the glove dislodging the ball. E-2?

Sounds like a HTBT. If a fielder drops a ball while making a routine tag its usually an E on the fielder; however, I wouldn't normally consider a catcher diving into a sliding runner to make a tag to be routine. How far off-line was the throw and would a diving tag attempt been necessary with a good throw? Who made the throw and from where? If on a typical infield play, I'd probably assign an E to the thrower. If on an outfield play, I'd be less inclined to assign an error, but more likely to if give the E if the off-line throw was from the cut off/relay in the IF as opposed to an outfielder on a direct 175 ft throw to the plate. So it could be an E2, E infielder, E cutoff/relay, or E outfielder. Or no E.

PS Get video next time!

FWIW - Interesting NCAA scoring rule notes:

"Note: Always give the batter the benefit of the doubt and score a hit when exceptionally good fielding fails to result in a putout. When in doubt, scoring should always award base hits instead of charging errors."

Do not assign an error... "14.22.8 When a fielder drops a ball after running a considerable distance or if she fails in her attempt to catch the ball while running at a high rate of speed."

 

[Scl1991]

As far as start on the ball: when my DD pitched, she would rub her hands in the dirt before grabbing the ball . She did this because she said her hands were sweaty. After she did this a few times she was called out for an illegal substance on the ball. They said she had to wipe her hands off on her pants. They never called it illegal until she was actually getting ready to pitch the ball. In other words, they gave her time to clean her hands before the pitches. I always thought it was kind of funny that the dirt from the field was an illegal substance!

Scoring question above: Was it ordinary effort? That is always the question that you should use when deciding to sign an error or not. If the catcher was making ordinary effort and should have, with that ordinary effort, retired the batter, then that would be an error. However from the way you described it it sounds like it was extraordinary effort, with the dive and the batter slamming into the fielder. Probably I wouldn't have assigned in an error. And please, never ever ever subscribe to the school of thought that the fielder touched the ball, therefore it must be an error!

 

[Comp]

Sc, dirt is not a foreign substance to the ball and there is a rules clarification from ASA to that effect. The pitcher is not required to wipe the hand after touching dirt or the rosing bag. However, they are not allowed to pick up a handful of dirt and rub it directly on the ball, put dirt or the rosin bag in their glove and then the ball, or rub the ball into the field. That is considered defacing the ball.

 

[InsidePitch]

The throw came from CF about 40' behind second and was caught about 6' up the first base side. It was a catch, dive to meet the incoming runner. I doubt there was time to run and set up.

This is the first year I have been responsible for a full book and am trying to do it right. I didn't charge the E at the time but wondered about it later.

 

[Greenmonsters]

The throw came from CF about 40' behind second and was caught about 6' up the first base side. It was a catch, dive to meet the incoming runner. I doubt there was time to run and set up.

This is the first year I have been responsible for a full book and am trying to do it right. I didn't charge the E at the time but wondered about it later.

Based on your description, it sounds like it would've required perfect execution to get the runner so I don't think I'd call it an E.

 

[Little Angels Softball]

Re: Scoring:

In my mind, once your catcher caught the ball and was able to make a tag (even through extraordinary effort) and still had a chance to get the runner out, the CF was off the hook and I would not charge an error to her.

I probably would not have charged an error to the catcher, either, but I almost always do on a dislodged ball that has been held long enough to make some sort of athletic move. It's the word "diving" that gets me, though. I cannot ever imagine charging anyone with an error who did not make a clean play while diving to catch a ball, stop a grounder, etc. if a maximum effort was made. I can't see why that wouldn't apply here, as well.

No error to either player and an RBI to the hitter if it involved a batted ball that wasn't missed by an infielder. That's how I'd score it.

 

[InsidePitch]

I hadn't considered charging the CF with a throwing error since it was caught and time to make a tag albeit with a lot of effort. I was just unsure about the fact the C had the ball but lost it in the tag.