If you daughter plays/played DII...

[Cannonball]

Yep... in most conferences it is year to year and they are under no obligation to offer anything year 2 and can do whatever they want including cutting you loose. If you perform it is generally not an issue, but if you get a change of coach and they want 'their players' it can go bad quick. A local D2 cut ALL their freshman after their first year. A new coach came in late and she felt they were loyal to the old coach, so none of them were offered a scholarship for their sophomore year. This included 4 starters and their #2 pitcher.

Some conferences have stopped this and have made athletic awards 4 year and can only go up.. but it is rare.

If that sounds tilted in the colleges favor, it sure is.

Academic money is generally a 4 year deal as long as you meet grade criteria, so is actually more stable than athletic money. It makes D3 attractive - if you quit softball, you are in the exact same financial situation as you would be if you continued playing (for the most part anyway).

The red above is something that happens more than people realize. I know at least 4 freshmen from this past year that played at D-Is who lost everything. A couple have hooked on with some D-IIs here in the Midwest. Per the academic money, you bet that is the way to go but you have to understand that those that monitor the requirements for eligibility to continue those academic scholarships could care less about the player's various commitments to athletics. When you drop below the requirements, the money ends. I know a few players who found that out the hard way.

 

[slugger3]

Thanks marriard and Cannonball! Great posts!

Back to TamiAz's question...when it comes to verballing and signing a NLI...

I'm assuming a lot of players/parents choose a school for a myriad of reasons. Whether it's the "dream school", close proximity to home, best school for their major...
But from what you are saying should the school's track record and reputation with NLI's and recruits play a bigger part?
If a college has a reputation for dropping scholarships and recruits, how can a player/parent track this? Do the Travel Ball programs keep tabs on this and try to steer there players away from programs like this?
I know the college teams are ran somewhat like a business, and only the strong survive. But if some programs are recruiting the heck out of your kid, and then drop them like a bad habit "just because", that's nerve racking.

So if a player's athletic scholarship money is dropped, even if their athletic and academic performance is what's expected, can the player opt out of that program and try to find another team/college?
Does the team/college have to agree to a player release even though the team is the one who cut the scholarship money?
Or is that player locked into a "contract" with the team/college by signing the NLI, and they are stuck there with no athletic scholarship?
Thanks

 

[marriard]

Thanks marriard and Cannonball! Great posts!

Back to TamiAz's question...when it comes to verballing and signing a NLI...

I'm assuming a lot of players/parents choose a school for a myriad of reasons. Whether it's the "dream school", close proximity to home, best school for their major...
But from what you are saying should the school's track record and reputation with NLI's and recruits play a bigger part?
If a college has a reputation for dropping scholarships and recruits, how can a player/parent track this? Do the Travel Ball programs keep tabs on this and try to steer there players away from programs like this?
I know the college teams are ran somewhat like a business, and only the strong survive. But if some programs are recruiting the heck out of your kid, and then drop them like a bad habit "just because", that's nerve racking.

So if a player's athletic scholarship money is dropped, even if their athletic and academic performance is what's expected, can the player opt out of that program and try to find another team/college?
Does the team/college have to agree to a player release even though the team is the one who cut the scholarship money?
Or is that player locked into a "contract" with the team/college by signing the NLI, and they are stuck there with no athletic scholarship?
Thanks

It isn't just the school - if it was it would be easier - it is the coach who is there AT THE TIME. There is a lot of variables and not a lot of control you have on it. Best case is you do your best research.

Some positives and negatives of some of these subjects you should consider beyond financial aid. Some of these are hard to find, or you will need to ask questions about to the school/coaches/AD:

- Length of tenure for coach - and many of the below are irrelevant if there is a coach who has been there less than 4 years
- Length of tenure for the AD - and how many programs in the school are churning coaches. Which sport do they care about?
- Assistant coach turn over - did they leave for an upgraded job or did they just leave
- Previous school for coaches & AD - what happened there. Are they upgrading when they came to this program? What happened.
- School athletic website - who gets all the attention. Read the 'news' archives.
- Number of 4-5 year seniors on the team (i.e. who stayed for the whole time)
- Number of upperclassman who have been part time contributors (i.e. who stuck it out despite limited playing time)
- Progression of players - did they get better each year? Are they the same player?
- Typical schedule for players. When do they have to get up to do weights? When are they on the field, etc, etc
- Aceademic support for team. Tutors? Coordinators? Other assistance you have access to. Having someone HELP you rearrange your schedule because of games and who is designated to work with the professors is a big deal over trying to do it yourself.
- Number of players transferring in and out - and how they did when they transferred out
- Number of Junior College players coming in regularly?
- Size of roster. I have seen team photos with enough players to field a football team.. and ones with enough players that you wonder how they field a softbal team
- Number of incoming freshman versus how many freshman on roster (fastpitch gold helps for D1 schools here, but you can follow spring games, look at rosters, etc)
- Team record trend over the past few years (W-L) It is going up (good) or steady (probably still decent) or declining (coach in trouble)
- Facilities - are they on par with other close by programs
- Travel schedule - are they bothering to go to tournaments in sunny climates (are they serious about softball). Are they traveling at all?
- Actual schedule - did they play all the allowed games. Do they try and cram in LOTS of games in one weekend because of snow or do they just cancel and move on.
- Competition for your DD's spot (4 catchers...and your DD is a catcher.. nope)
- Style of play (fast, power, etc, etc)
- Degree programs players are taking
- Talent level - where does you DD really fit in. It is OK to say 'fight for your spot' but it is only FOUR years. Players WANT TO PLAY - it is the reward for the hard work. What is the reward if you are not playing.
- DO they play freshman? DO they favor upperclass players? Are you OK with this? Will your DD be OK with this?
- Walk ons - are they playing. Sometimes walkons are real walkons... sometimes they are great players that got 100% academic money so the coach didn't have to spend any athletic money on them.

So many things.

 

[7smom]

It isn't just the school - if it was it would be easier - it is the coach who is there AT THE TIME. There is a lot of variables and not a lot of control you have on it. Best case is you do your best research.

Some positives and negatives of some of these subjects you should consider beyond financial aid. Some of these are hard to find, or you will need to ask questions about to the school/coaches/AD:

- Length of tenure for coach - and many of the below are irrelevant if there is a coach who has been there less than 4 years
- Length of tenure for the AD - and how many programs in the school are churning coaches. Which sport do they care about?
- Assistant coach turn over - did they leave for an upgraded job or did they just leave
- Previous school for coaches & AD - what happened there. Are they upgrading when they came to this program? What happened.
- School athletic website - who gets all the attention. Read the 'news' archives.
- Number of 4-5 year seniors on the team (i.e. who stayed for the whole time)
- Number of upperclassman who have been part time contributors (i.e. who stuck it out despite limited playing time)
- Progression of players - did they get better each year? Are they the same player?
- Typical schedule for players. When do they have to get up to do weights? When are they on the field, etc, etc
- Aceademic support for team. Tutors? Coordinators? Other assistance you have access to. Having someone HELP you rearrange your schedule because of games and who is designated to work with the professors is a big deal over trying to do it yourself.
- Number of players transferring in and out - and how they did when they transferred out
- Number of Junior College players coming in regularly?
- Size of roster. I have seen team photos with enough players to field a football team.. and ones with enough players that you wonder how they field a softbal team
- Number of incoming freshman versus how many freshman on roster (fastpitch gold helps for D1 schools here, but you can follow spring games, look at rosters, etc)
- Team record trend over the past few years (W-L) It is going up (good) or steady (probably still decent) or declining (coach in trouble)
- Facilities - are they on par with other close by programs
- Travel schedule - are they bothering to go to tournaments in sunny climates (are they serious about softball). Are they traveling at all?
- Actual schedule - did they play all the allowed games. Do they try and cram in LOTS of games in one weekend because of snow or do they just cancel and move on.
- Competition for your DD's spot (4 catchers...and your DD is a catcher.. nope)
- Style of play (fast, power, etc, etc)
- Degree programs players are taking
- Talent level - where does you DD really fit in. It is OK to say 'fight for your spot' but it is only FOUR years. Players WANT TO PLAY - it is the reward for the hard work. What is the reward if you are not playing.
- DO they play freshman? DO they favor upperclass players? Are you OK with this? Will your DD be OK with this?
- Walk ons - are they playing. Sometimes walkons and walkons... sometimes they are great players that got 100% academic money so the coach didn't have to spend any athletic money on them.

So many things.

This is spot on- for any level- not just DII. This list should be moved to it's own thread IMO. Recruiting process is a lot of work and take a lot of research and even then things may not end up exactly how you plan. This is a great list for people to consider.

 

[marriard]

So if a player's athletic scholarship money is dropped, even if their athletic and academic performance is what's expected, can the player opt out of that program and try to find another team/college? Does the team/college have to agree to a player release even though the team is the one who cut the scholarship money?

This is complex but your college is at some stage going to offer you (or you ask for) a release. In most cases this isn't an issue - if they are offering you nothing a release to go find another team is generally what you are getting. If it is a reduced scholarship then you will have to ask for a release and then it can be complex - normally reduced scholarships are a 'take it or leave it' and if you leave it, you get your release.

Until you have a release you can't officially talk to another school (though there is the intermediaries - players tells parents who tells contact who tells college coach 'so and so is looking' who then tells contact if she was I could probably offer this and then back through the comms chain. Totally stupid. I have had a conversation with a college coach who said to me "I like the way your DD pitched today. Tell her to keep it up." My DD was literally 5' away

There are NCAA rules, conference rules and even legal rules around the whole process. Most situations are handled well, but when it gets messy - it gets messy. I am not a NCAA compliance officer - going and finding one is going to help either at the current school or at another one. Navigating recruiting and eligibility rules... ugh.

Or is that player locked into a "contract" with the team/college by signing the NLI, and they are stuck there with no athletic scholarship?
Thanks

The NLI only applies to the first year. So once you sign you and the college are 'stuck' unless both partied agrees to releasing the player and the school from the contract. The school is also stuck with providing the athletic award for this first year unless you don't meet requirements (such as not being admitted to the college, dropping out, failing, etc). This happens a lot and in most cases it isn't a big deal, but occasionally trying to break an NLI becomes a huge mess - in football this ends up on ESPN. In softball it ends up on forums like this. If you are in this situation, DO NOT DROP CLASSES or stop going to school. You MUST maintain grades.

 

[MNDad]

"It is OK to say 'fight for your spot' but it is only FOUR years. Players WANT TO PLAY - it is the reward for the hard work. What is the reward if you are not playing."

I really liked the list and mostly agree with this statement. Potential playing time is definitely a consideration. At the same time I see girls who are used to teams of 11-12 have trouble adjusting to rosters of 20 girls. You want innings to validate hard work, but too many have a sense of entitlement that they're supposed to play everyday as freshman. A good friend of mine had a DD walk on to a mid major. Her reward was the pride of working her butt off and making the team. Any playing was icing on the cake.

 

[marriard]

A good friend of mine had a DD walk on to a mid major. Her reward was the pride of working her butt off and making the team. Any playing was icing on the cake.

This was what I was trying to say (though badly).

If playing isn't the likely reward for the work, then what is the reward you are looking to achieve? If pride in the work itself an making the team is the reward that you are good with, then that is awesome. Everyone is different and everyone may be looking for something different - and that is great!

 

[SoCal_Dad]

The NLI only applies to the first year.

NLI is an optional program and the LOI is accompanied with an offer for athletics financial aid. NLI may say it only applies for the first year, however the NCAA has allowed multi-year awards for D-I since 2013 HS class. Regardless of NLI only enforcing the first year with its members, NCAA bylaws still cover everyone and all deals.

 

[slugger3]

NLI is an optional program and the LOI is accompanied with an offer for athletics financial aid. NLI may say it only applies for the first year, however the NCAA has allowed multi-year awards for D-I since 2013 HS class. Regardless of NLI only enforcing the first year with its members, NCAA bylaws still cover everyone and all deals.

Does the player ever have an influence on whether the NLI or LOI is a single year or multi year deal?
Or is that solely based on the college program/policy?

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Does the player ever have an influence on whether the NLI or LOI is a single year or multi year deal?
Or is that solely based on the college program/policy?

It's a combination of both. Some programs are bound by a school/conference policy requiring multi-year deals, however I expect that also makes them more cautious in the amounts they offer. Players have leverage for a multi-year deal if they're being recruited by multiple programs, especially once they've received substantial and/or multi-year offers.