So, you picked her in the beginning of fall, am I right? So, she had a great tryout, enough so that you picked her. But she isn't performing as you had hoped. I'm wondering if this girl is suffering burnout. Maybe had a long spring/summer season. But, as someone else said, definitely have that heart to heart and see what she has to say.
Hard Decisions
- Thread starter 02Crush
- Start date
Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch
Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.
- May 25, 2010
- 1,070
- 0
Your post is honest and I sense your frustration, but you're first-year 12u. The focus of good 12u coaches is on coaching the players they have rather than trying to recruit players to replace the girls they have. Where we live, the softball year starts in fall and ends in summer, but if all your players and their parents knew in advance you only choose players for a few months at a time, then if you want to cut her after fall, that's an honest transaction.3 years ago I started a low level TB Team and we have worked our way up the ladder each year. This past Summer we had a few players move on and we replaced them with what we felt were solid players, possibly better players. NOTE** I say better because of talent, potential ability or strong desire to player ball and learn or all of the above.
Flash forward 9 weeks. After practicing hard and playing two events we have one player who is not up to snuff. She is a decent kid with a good family. However, after a lot of coaching on many different facets of the game she is just not on the same level as all the others. Many times she is just not putting in the effort to be successful. She was one of the top three ranking players at tryouts but since then has been far from this in practices and games. We are a competitive TB team. I would not call us elite but we definitely not lower ranking either. At this point we are looking to get better by coaching players to get better more so than recruiting constantly. However we have to establish a baseline of skill based on where the team is now as opposed to where it was 3 years ago and need players to keep up.
To this point I have only cut players for violating rules (usually because of the parents actions) as opposed to skills or ability. Our next payment is due soon and I am just not sure I can take their money and continue on. I am getting mixed opinions from 3 people I trust. One says I should give her until the end of Fall (November) and re-asses. The other says I should finish the year with her because I chose her. The other says I should cut her immediately. I know we can teach skills but we cannot teach effort. I feel strongly that desire and effort have to come from the player. What would you do? While I have learned a lot over the years I still do not know everything and value others perspectives in situations like these. Thanks in advance.
Keep in mind, we have tried all tactics. Personable, one on one interaction; Firm task oriented and lately harder toned and staying on her to hustle. Very little has worked. I feel we are communicating clearly because we took 2 players from Rec Ball who are soaking up the lessons and developing at a fast rate which has given us a good perspective on effort and desire.
When we came on in August, the HC told us that no player would be cut without cause and I think that most competitive 10u and 12u teams are run that way.
Another issue this brings up is the importance of making good choices in tryouts. And I don't claim to have the secret.
Couple of years ago I was down to two girls. The one I picked hit .180. The one I didn't pick showed up on a team that we played, played shortstop, went 3-for-3.
Another time, I took a girl reluctantly. Her older sister played in our organization. She batted her 7th to start. After three tournaments, she was our best hitter and stayed that way. I could go on and on.
One problem you have is that coaches don't seek recommendations from previous coaches on these players. And there are a lot of practical reasons for that. Some players don't want their former (or perhaps current) coaches to know they're looking around. And some coaches won't give you an honest assessment because they don't want to lose the player, or they have an axe to grind.
In Georgia where the OP is (and I was), you have a fall season that is abbreviated because of the presence of school ball. Some teams use that transition period to make the entire fall an extended tryout. Not everyone is invited to winter workouts and beyond.
But in the end, it's hard to give somebody a uniform to take home and then tell them after two months that they can't wear it any more. I figure in 20 years, I doubt I would look back and be proud that I did that.
Couple of years ago I was down to two girls. The one I picked hit .180. The one I didn't pick showed up on a team that we played, played shortstop, went 3-for-3.
Another time, I took a girl reluctantly. Her older sister played in our organization. She batted her 7th to start. After three tournaments, she was our best hitter and stayed that way. I could go on and on.
One problem you have is that coaches don't seek recommendations from previous coaches on these players. And there are a lot of practical reasons for that. Some players don't want their former (or perhaps current) coaches to know they're looking around. And some coaches won't give you an honest assessment because they don't want to lose the player, or they have an axe to grind.
In Georgia where the OP is (and I was), you have a fall season that is abbreviated because of the presence of school ball. Some teams use that transition period to make the entire fall an extended tryout. Not everyone is invited to winter workouts and beyond.
But in the end, it's hard to give somebody a uniform to take home and then tell them after two months that they can't wear it any more. I figure in 20 years, I doubt I would look back and be proud that I did that.
From my perspective, it all boils down to communication. Talk to the kid and parents in a way that doesn't cause them to be defensive. If they are having trouble hitting suggest lessons or extra work. If they aren't hustling talk to them. Often we think that pushing a little harder in practice is the trick, but the kids just doesn't realize it's them. Other kids talk to much in practice and disrupt. It doesn't have to be a tribunal. I see it all the time where kids think they are at point A and the coaches consider them somewhere totally different.
In this case, kids from rec ball sometimes have a hard time adjusting to the level of practice. They were always the best player and now aren't. Some work harder, some get scared and some just go into a shell.
I don't think a kid should ever be cut out of the blue. If they are told what they need to work on and don't you have a reason. Having a kid that doesn't hustle to me is the worst thing you can do.
One other thing to look at is how much your core of established players hustle. You may not have noticed that some of them are not giving 100 percent and it's how the new player perceives the team. Not saying it's the case, but look around.
In this case, kids from rec ball sometimes have a hard time adjusting to the level of practice. They were always the best player and now aren't. Some work harder, some get scared and some just go into a shell.
I don't think a kid should ever be cut out of the blue. If they are told what they need to work on and don't you have a reason. Having a kid that doesn't hustle to me is the worst thing you can do.
One other thing to look at is how much your core of established players hustle. You may not have noticed that some of them are not giving 100 percent and it's how the new player perceives the team. Not saying it's the case, but look around.
I agree with the above, with emphasis added.
Have the heart-to-heart and see if she can improve. If not, I would add a girl to your roster who plays her position(s) at a higher level. If that makes them want to leave, that is fine. However, I just can't cut a girl who I selected. I don't have to pick her the following year, but I am not cutting her strictly for performance.
- Jun 24, 2013
- 1,057
- 36
Responding as a Parent I would like to be told that she is not performing to your expectations. I would also like you to provide some input on how she can meet your expectations.
Hustle and attitude are hard to teach.
I did not participate in any of DD’s practices this past year, her coaches provided me the only input on her attitude and effort during practice. I assumed she worked hard and said “yes sir” or “yes mam” but I could be wrong and wouldn’t know different unless a coach told me. I do not care what another parent tells me, I only care about the coach.
If hustle and attitude are the Issue, I would like a month to be able to fix it. If she is not good enough, cannot hit, I cannot fix that in a month. Give me some notice and help me find her a Team.
Hustle and attitude are hard to teach.
I did not participate in any of DD’s practices this past year, her coaches provided me the only input on her attitude and effort during practice. I assumed she worked hard and said “yes sir” or “yes mam” but I could be wrong and wouldn’t know different unless a coach told me. I do not care what another parent tells me, I only care about the coach.
If hustle and attitude are the Issue, I would like a month to be able to fix it. If she is not good enough, cannot hit, I cannot fix that in a month. Give me some notice and help me find her a Team.
- Sep 12, 2013
- 10
- 0
IMHO As a parent, I would want you to be an honest broker. Don't drag us along for the ride, don't have our family sacrificing our time and money for this experience if you are just going to add to the roster and sit my kid out. If she isn't performing, make the best decision for your team, not only in terms of winning games but also in team cohesion and spirit. That is as much a part of the game as anything else and you also have at least 8 other girls who want their experience to be the best it can be. A girl who isn't performing even after specific information given to her about expectations and multiple chances to improve shouldn't be allowed to ruin it for everyone. And the girl will know she is being sat on the bench (hard to hide that fact lol) and that will only make her work less and give up completely. It may be a difficult lesson for this girl and her parents but it is a life lesson that we all need to learn eventually.
I like what you say about leveling with the parent, but are you also saying that 12U travel teams should cut players mid-season because they aren't performing? I might be taking what you're saying out of context, but IMO, 12U is about developing players first, not winning. So as a coach, I am committing for 12 months to every player that I invite on the team. If they're hitting .100, it's my job to improve them, and sitting on the bench isn't going to help. The only lesson a 12-year-old is going to learn from being cut in mid-season is that my coach values me strictly as an athlete and not a person.
- Sep 12, 2013
- 10
- 0
I get what you (and others who have stated similar sentiments) are saying CoogansBluff. I guess it depends on how detrimental it is to the team as a whole. The entire team should not be suffering because of one other girl--this isn't rec ball or school ball, people are paying their hard earned money for this experience. It's hard to say without being there but it's apparently enough of an issue for the coach to even be considering it.
The way I understood the post, the player isn't putting effort in to the game. Is the child's lack of effort due to personal issues? Is it due to coaching issues? Is it simply laziness or defiance? Those are all things that one should consider and an attempt should always be made first to rectify it. But, I fail to understand why it's ok to cut a player because their parents stink but not ok to let the player go because they are not performing... harsh I guess to some but kids need to learn that their actions have effects and the effort they put in to whatever they do in life has consequence. Maybe 12U is too young. Like I said, it depends on how severe the issue is.
The way I understood the post, the player isn't putting effort in to the game. Is the child's lack of effort due to personal issues? Is it due to coaching issues? Is it simply laziness or defiance? Those are all things that one should consider and an attempt should always be made first to rectify it. But, I fail to understand why it's ok to cut a player because their parents stink but not ok to let the player go because they are not performing... harsh I guess to some but kids need to learn that their actions have effects and the effort they put in to whatever they do in life has consequence. Maybe 12U is too young. Like I said, it depends on how severe the issue is.
I agree w/ that. And I was talking pure performance, not attitude/effort. When severe enough, bad attitude can be grounds for divorce, although cutting mid-season is a last resort.
