Fake Bunt

[FP26]

Not uncommon for an opposing team to take their metal cleats and cleat the hand of a baserunner diving back to a base ... ripping the glove and drawing blood ... intent being to inflict enough pain to have the baserunner lift her hand and be tagged out.

Had this exact thing happen to a player at a recent tournament. Our 23u team registered for an open age tournament. Our player dove back to first and was cleated by the first baseman. She had the presence of mind to keep her hand on the base until time was called. Initially I thought it was an accident. But later the first baseman came over to apologize to our player. She stated that she has been out of college for several years, but was trained in college to do that exact thing. She didn't mean to do it in this case, but it has become a habit for her. Our player had a scratch and some bruising, but luckily nothing more serious.

 

[Hawk_]

As a Dad of a 3rd baseman not a fan of the slash. She stands way too close a lot of the time anyways cause she is aggressive.
As a Coach I understand the play. I can't hate on a good play.

 

[4 girl's dad]

Not even close to being as hardcore as the 3rd basemen being lined in the head without the ability to defend them self. Consider the outcomes of what you consider hardcore compared to the play I am referring to.. not even close. I can ask any girl on our team what they would prefer ..National berth or preventing somebody from a serious injury. I know what they would choose every time and believe me none of these girls are ready to roll over.

Julray, I wasnt going to reply but I feel compelled to. You obviously have a lot of emotion in this topic and that is okay. But, as has been stated, its a part of the game that has to be taught to the defense to be aware of. I know you are working in extremes when you say the defense is 10ft from the batter. Ive only seen that once and it was 1st year 10u and a rediculously ill coached team had his 3b doin just that. She was maybe 15 feet from the batter. That is a coaching error.


To me, the slash play and the fake bake hit is defended the same. (To me they are the same play so maybe I’m missing something). The defender has tp be aware of what the batter is doing. To crash blindly is a mistake on the defender and on her coach for not teaching her how to defend.

The slash is to draw in the defense. The fake bunt hit is to get better sequence to hit. Both are defended the same IMO.

 

[julray]

Julray, I wasnt going to reply but I feel compelled to. You obviously have a lot of emotion in this topic and that is okay. But, as has been stated, its a part of the game that has to be taught to the defense to be aware of. I know you are working in extremes when you say the defense is 10ft from the batter. Ive only seen that once and it was 1st year 10u and a rediculously ill coached team had his 3b doin just that. She was maybe 15 feet from the batter. That is a coaching error.


To me, the slash play and the fake bake hit is defended the same. (To me they are the same play so maybe I’m missing something). The defender has tp be aware of what the batter is doing. To crash blindly is a mistake on the defender and on her coach for not teaching her how to defend.

The slash is to draw in the defense. The fake bunt hit is to get better sequence to hit. Both are defended the same IMO.

I don't have a lot of emotion regarding this to be honest. But at the same time I see our coach teaching it and I am not a fan of it. To simply say if a kid crashes blindly because 1. They are not being coached properly, 2. or more likely a kid crashes in error because they read the play wrong. To be honest I don't really care what the cause is, it's the result that is most concerning. Are you comfortable with saying the cause is "they should of been coached better" when the result is a kid in the hospital with a serious head injury. Does the national title mean anything at that point? It's a dangerous play which has not part in my playbook... not worth it.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Not even close to being as hardcore as the 3rd basemen being lined in the head without the ability to defend them self. Consider the outcomes of what you consider hardcore compared to the play I am referring to.. not even close. I can ask any girl on our team what they would prefer ..National berth or preventing somebody from a serious injury. I know what they would choose every time and believe me none of these girls are ready to roll over.

I am all for the rules being changed to deaden the bats. Heck, I'm fine with using wood. Until then, folks are going to swing away.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Had this exact thing happen to a player at a recent tournament. Our 23u team registered for an open age tournament. Our player dove back to first and was cleated by the first baseman. She had the presence of mind to keep her hand on the base until time was called. Initially I thought it was an accident. But later the first baseman came over to apologize to our player. She stated that she has been out of college for several years, but was trained in college to do that exact thing. She didn't mean to do it in this case, but it has become a habit for her. Our player had a scratch and some bruising, but luckily nothing more serious.

I hear you. It is a habit for many competitive teams. That doesn't make it right ... just describing what I see.

 

[MNDad]

I don’t care for the fake bunt and I agree it’s dangerous against inexperienced players. If we’re talking teams playing for a national title those girls have the skill and knowledge to protect themselves. If they can’t, they have no business at 3B.

 

[let it be fun]

I've had players at national qualifiers taken out for the remainder of the season ... an example was a 2Ber covering 1B on a bunt that drew in the 1Ber ... 2Ber had little exposure ... the baserunner made it a point to deck the 2Ber as she ran through the bag ... deliberate ... the other team laughed.

Not uncommon for an opposing team to take their metal cleats and cleat the hand of a baserunner diving back to a base ... ripping the glove and drawing blood ... intent being to inflict enough pain to have the baserunner lift her hand and be tagged out.

More of the same.

Maybe it is my luck ... have run into teams playing at the national level that have a burning desire to win ... they aren't there to roll over ... they have worked all year for an opportunity to win a berth, and they are intent on winning that berth.

I don't think intentionally cleating a baserunner or wiping out the 2B covering 1B is demonstrating a "burning desire to win" at all. I think it is girls who have coaches with a burning desire to win at all costs who teach them how to play dirty. If I still had girls playing I would pull them off a team if a coach taught them that those tactics are acceptable because we want to win.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I don't think intentionally cleating a baserunner or wiping out the 2B covering 1B is demonstrating a "burning desire to win" at all. I think it is girls who have coaches with a burning desire to win at all costs who teach them how to play dirty. If I still had girls playing I would pull them off a team if a coach taught them that those tactics are acceptable because we want to win.

My descriptions were intentionally not colorful. The baserunner that took out the 2Ber went out of her way to railroad the 2Ber ... the 'out' was already evident ... the intent was to put the kid in the hospital ... which was result ... she didn't play again for the remainder of the season. The cleating of the hands resulted in stitches ... very clear intent ... the baserunner had reached the bag safely and the intent was to inflict severe pain to obtain an out.

It's an eye opener for girls that haven't seen the game played at a highly competitive level. However, they grow up quickly.

 

[FP26]

I disagree with a lot of the tactics that have been discussed in the last few pages. I do not teach them and do not condone them from any players on my team. However, as a coach, it is my responsibility to teach my players what to do if they are faced with such tactics. I cannot control how other teams coach their players. But it has always been my opinion that the best way to prove your displeasure of another team's tactics is to score more runs than them. Winning is enjoyable. Beating a team that uses less than desirable tactics is even more enjoyable.