- Mar 23, 2010
- 31
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Can someone please clarify the senerio for me. 12U Pony League Rules. Third strike is dropped by catcher... Does batter have to go immediately toward first or can she go even after turning and going toward her dug out?
Dropped Third Strike Rule
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- Jul 28, 2008
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Rulebook says she is out if she fails to advance to 1st base and enters her team area. Rule 9, Section 7f. I am going to say the team area is the dugout.
Until the batter steps into the dugout, they have every right to attempt to advance to first base on a dropped third strike. As long as first base was not occupied at the time of the pitch with less than 2 outs.
Was a big stink here last year over this very call in a high school game. Visiting team thought they had won game, bases loaded with 2 outs, dropped third strike, batter started walking toward dugout, defense is celebrating drops ball and runs off field huddling near dugout. Offensive coach realizes the pitch was dropped and yells at batter to run to 1st. In mean time 2 runs cross plate to win game. Message boards were nuts with parents insisting umpires had blown the call.
Was a big stink here last year over this very call in a high school game. Visiting team thought they had won game, bases loaded with 2 outs, dropped third strike, batter started walking toward dugout, defense is celebrating drops ball and runs off field huddling near dugout. Offensive coach realizes the pitch was dropped and yells at batter to run to 1st. In mean time 2 runs cross plate to win game. Message boards were nuts with parents insisting umpires had blown the call.
For this very reason, shouldn't the catcher make a habit of tagging the batter on a dropped third strike irregardless of whether the batter attempts to go to first or not. Drop the ball, pick it up, tag the batter, play over.
Or in this case with the bases loaded & 2 outs , just pick up the ball and tag home plate with the foot. Put out at home would also end the game.
This IMO is the most chaotic scenerio when it happens. Even most ump are lost.
The Uncaught Third Strike Rule is often misunderstood and causes some confusion. It's a strange rule, and like some of the other strange rules of the game it has it's origins in the earliest days of the game of baseball.
In the earliest days of baseball, a batter was called out when his third strike was caught by the catcher. To some extent this same concept applies today. The batter isn't just automatically out on a third strike- there has to be a clean catch of the pitch by the catcher to complete the play.
Before the Uncaught Third Strike Rule was conceived, early baseball players found a way to exploit this rule to their advantage, in much the same way that the defense would purposely drop the ball on an infield fly before the Infield Fly Rule was invented. With a runner on first base, if the batter made strike three the catcher would purposely drop the ball. The batter would become a batter-runner and be forced to try for first base. The runner on first would then be forced to run to second.
This put the offense at a big disadvantage. The runner on first would be close to the bag on the third strike. The purposeful drop by the catcher would force him to run and the defense could usually turn an easy double play. With multiple runners, a triple play wouldn't be out of the question.
To combat this deceitful advantage by the defense, the Uncaught Third Strike Rule was developed around the turn of the century- the last century, not this one! The rulesmakers decided that if there were less than two outs and the third strike was not caught, the batter would be automatically out. No catch of the pitch was required. Thus, the batter did NOT become a batter-runner and a runner on first would NOT be forced to advance. This totally eliminated the defense's ability to "fool" the offense and gain multiple outs through deception by purposely droppng the ball.
(That covers the part of the rule for when there are less than two outs and first base is occupied.)
With no runner on first base, a catch of the third strike was still required. Without a runner on at least first base, the defense had no incentive to purposely drop the ball. Doing so would not create any force outs on the bases. With first base open, the rules still require the catcher to make a clean catch of the pitch to retire the batter. If the pitch isn't caught, then the batter does become a batter-runner and may advance to first base.
(That covers the part of the rule about when first base is not occupied).
Lastly, when there are two outs the rules still require the catcher to catch the pitch to retire the batter. If there are two outs- no matter if first base is occupied or not- the defense has NO incentive to purposely drop the pitch. Nothing could be gained by that deception with two outs. Catching the pitch completes the third out and ends the inning. Purposely dropping it in this scenario would be, frankly, kind of stupid. You would gain no advantage, but you would be giving the offense a chance to keep the inning alive.
(That covers the part of the rule about when there are two outs.)
Baseball hashed all this out around 1900. When the first official softball rules were written in the 1930's, many of the existing baseball rules were copied verbatim. This one is just one example. It's a strange rule that has been around for over 100 years- and it survives to confound and confuse players even today!
In a nutshell, the rules ALWAYS require the catcher to catch the third strike to complete the out, EXCEPT in situations where purposely not catching it would present the defense with an unintended advantage (less than two and first base occupied) or in a situation where purposely not catching it would be illogical (whenever there are two outs, regardless of if first base is occupied or not).
The Uncaught Third Strike Rule is often misunderstood and causes some confusion. It's a strange rule, and like some of the other strange rules of the game it has it's origins in the earliest days of the game of baseball.
In the earliest days of baseball, a batter was called out when his third strike was caught by the catcher. To some extent this same concept applies today. The batter isn't just automatically out on a third strike- there has to be a clean catch of the pitch by the catcher to complete the play.
Before the Uncaught Third Strike Rule was conceived, early baseball players found a way to exploit this rule to their advantage, in much the same way that the defense would purposely drop the ball on an infield fly before the Infield Fly Rule was invented. With a runner on first base, if the batter made strike three the catcher would purposely drop the ball. The batter would become a batter-runner and be forced to try for first base. The runner on first would then be forced to run to second.
This put the offense at a big disadvantage. The runner on first would be close to the bag on the third strike. The purposeful drop by the catcher would force him to run and the defense could usually turn an easy double play. With multiple runners, a triple play wouldn't be out of the question.
To combat this deceitful advantage by the defense, the Uncaught Third Strike Rule was developed around the turn of the century- the last century, not this one! The rulesmakers decided that if there were less than two outs and the third strike was not caught, the batter would be automatically out. No catch of the pitch was required. Thus, the batter did NOT become a batter-runner and a runner on first would NOT be forced to advance. This totally eliminated the defense's ability to "fool" the offense and gain multiple outs through deception by purposely droppng the ball.
(That covers the part of the rule for when there are less than two outs and first base is occupied.)
With no runner on first base, a catch of the third strike was still required. Without a runner on at least first base, the defense had no incentive to purposely drop the ball. Doing so would not create any force outs on the bases. With first base open, the rules still require the catcher to make a clean catch of the pitch to retire the batter. If the pitch isn't caught, then the batter does become a batter-runner and may advance to first base.
(That covers the part of the rule about when first base is not occupied).
Lastly, when there are two outs the rules still require the catcher to catch the pitch to retire the batter. If there are two outs- no matter if first base is occupied or not- the defense has NO incentive to purposely drop the pitch. Nothing could be gained by that deception with two outs. Catching the pitch completes the third out and ends the inning. Purposely dropping it in this scenario would be, frankly, kind of stupid. You would gain no advantage, but you would be giving the offense a chance to keep the inning alive.
(That covers the part of the rule about when there are two outs.)
Baseball hashed all this out around 1900. When the first official softball rules were written in the 1930's, many of the existing baseball rules were copied verbatim. This one is just one example. It's a strange rule that has been around for over 100 years- and it survives to confound and confuse players even today!
In a nutshell, the rules ALWAYS require the catcher to catch the third strike to complete the out, EXCEPT in situations where purposely not catching it would present the defense with an unintended advantage (less than two and first base occupied) or in a situation where purposely not catching it would be illogical (whenever there are two outs, regardless of if first base is occupied or not).
- Jun 22, 2008
- 3,438
- 48
It may go even farther back than that. The game from which baseball was most likely derived may have provided some incentive for this rule. In the game of rounders, the striker runs anytime the stick contacts the ball. In some versions of the game, when a ball is not thrown/pitched/bowled properly, it is a "no ball". A striker may attempt to hit a "no ball", but may run whether they contact the ball or not.
Just to be clear, make sure your catchers know that if the pitch hits the dirt, regardless of whether or not they make the catch. Its the same as a dropped pitch. A ball that skips directly into the mitt and is secured, young catchers don't think its an uncaught pitch.
- Jul 28, 2008
- 1,084
- 0
We played a team last year and every 3rd strike was followed by an automatic tag.
I would modify that to be every dropped third strike is followed by an automatic tag. I don't want my catcher to be thinking is first base open, are there less than two outs, etc. Drop the third strike, tag the batter. Simple, and it gets the job done without annoying the other team too much.
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