Does it matter where you go to college?

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JAD

Feb 20, 2012
8,231
38
Georgia
I saw this article and though it was worth sharing. Very good information to have for anyone who's DD is going through the recruiting process or dreams of playing college softball.

Does it matter where you go to college? You might be surprised - Dr. Tim Jordan; the leading expert on parenting girls

Does it matter where you go to college? You might be surprised
February 9, 2016 by Dr. Tim Jordan

The prevailing mantra being played out by many teens these days is, “Attend a top tier university or bust”. The perception is that where you go to college is the most important determinant for your future success. Charlotte, 18, recently told me that she’d consider it a failure if she weren’t admitted into her top choice, Yale. A whole cottage industry of college prep has sprung up around this concept, with specialized tutoring, camps, publications, consultants, and ACT/SAT prep classes. According to research, this Ivy League mythology is just that, a myth.

Frank Bruni, in his book, Where You Go Is Not Who You’ll Be, cites research showing that the majority of American- born CEO’s of the top 100 Fortune 500 companies did not attend elite universities, and there was no pattern in where they went to school. The Platinum Study by Michael Lindsay studied 550 American leaders including 250 top CEO’s, and he found that over two-thirds graduated from non-elite schools. This finding is consistent whether you are talking about Pulitzer Prize winners or leaders in the fields of science and engineering. Many studies have documented that where you go to college has little predictive value for future earnings or levels of well-being.

We need to focus young people on a different model. Going to a prestigious college doesn’t make you successful; you must do that for yourself. It’s not where you go to college that matters, it’s how you go to college. What really matters are how well you use the university you go to and what you demand of it. Focus on using those years to come of age, bust out of your comfort zone and try new subjects and activities, reinvent yourself, create fresh outlooks on life, re-examine and question everything in your life, and draw strength and confidence from navigating new experiences and connecting with diverse people.

I discourage co-eds from just reproducing their high school experience with the same kinds of friends and activities. College is an opportunity to expand yourself in so many ways, so be open to change. Approach the whole college process with excitement vs. anxiety. Let go of the regimented, linear path to success that has been beaten into you since birth and instead create your own story. Trust the process of life, and most importantly, trust yourself.

Finally, why you are choosing a college is more important than where you end up. The American Freshman 2011 survey showed that 73% of college freshman had making more money as a very important goal, up from 42% in the 1960’s. My worry is that being driven by being accepted into an elite college turns into a pursuit of a prestigious job and getting rich. None of those things in and of themselves is wrong. But people driven by these externals end up less happy and fulfilled than those motivated by things like finding a purposeful career and making a difference.

Young people have been conditioned to overvalue things like popularity, fame, being rich, being special, being the best, and externals like praise, rewards and awards. In the end, what really matters is who you are, not what you have. The college experience should be more about making good people and citizens than making careers. Graduates should emerge as people who are original thinkers, problem-solvers, creative, and risk-takers. I’d recommend that students focus more on personal development and less on packaging themselves.

You can’t measure a high school student by their GPA or test scores, nor can you evaluate a college grad by what school they attended or their grades. What is harder to measure but far more important is a young adult’s level of grit, engagement, optimism, integrity, people skills, street smarts, stamina, and determination. If developing these qualities is our intention for people entering college, then we need to shift our focus starting in childhood.
 
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Tom

Mar 13, 2014
222
0
Texas
Agree if someone is studying something not highly specialized. A degree from Cal Tech or MIT certainly mean more in the engineering tech world then an engineering degree from a good state school even after a track record of success has been established in a career. In business and other BA paths do agree.

Interesting that only 12 schools produced more than 1 of the Fortune 500 CEOs in 2015.

CEO schools.jpg

Colleges That Gave Fortune 500 CEOs Their Start - US News
 
Sep 29, 2014
2,421
113
Biggest thing I have found is that the degree and GPA can get you in the door once in the door it is what you make of it.

If you don't get in the door at first and end up down the street or on the wrong side of the tracks you can work your way over after building a solid resume.

My guess would be after 5 to 10 years nobody cares anymore. There is an old adage: how do your greet the guy you made an appointment with who graduated last in his class at med school... Doctor

The other thing to remember if you don't want to go across country looking for a job and let's say you want to stay in Texas...a degree from UT or Texas A&M will do just fine; same with most other state schools if you are in state, reason being most of the people there are probably from those same state schools and the company is doing great without Ivy league managers and upper level management likes it that way.
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,319
113
Florida
Agree if someone is studying something not highly specialized. A degree from Cal Tech or MIT certainly mean more in the engineering tech world then an engineering degree from a good state school even after a track record of success has been established in a career. In business and other BA paths do agree.

Interesting that only 12 schools produced more than 1 of the Fortune 500 CEOs in 2015.

View attachment 9857

Colleges That Gave Fortune 500 CEOs Their Start - US News

You can see my thoughts on what degrees and so on are worth in the hiring process in a different thread ( they can be worth a lot for your first job placement, worth a lot in specialty programs, where loses significance as you get more experience).

However this article has a very stupid way of looking at it (unsurprising looking at the source and their normal audience). Not only is it really an extremely small sample size, but F-500 CEO's generally come from either a higher business degree college or through ownership of a company which grew, family connections and with the fortune level companies especially - a very particular personality - they are not kidding when they throw out the word sociopath, narcissistic, lack of empathy and sneaky to describe them - and then a lot of times charismatic to cover it up... Harvard isn't going to give you the personality if you are not already inclined that way (they do know how to nurture it though).

I've met a few exceptions who were not that way primarily because they were the original owner or an early executive when the company was small - Bill Gates is a good example. A lot of them get rail-roaded by investors when things get bad (like Bill Gates did in many ways - which is where someone like Steve Balmer came in who can be described using those traits)

Now if they wanted to go out there and look across the full C-level and executive suite, into non-financial leadership and into the valued employee groups, and into the entrepreneur world you would see a very different and a much better story of what a degree is worth.
 
Aug 12, 2014
648
43
From the article:

"I discourage co-eds"

There are actually still people who call females who go to college "co-eds"?
 
Jun 21, 2014
43
6
Philadelphia, PA
You don't need to go to an Ivy to be successful. However, at least in certain fields, certain schools will be feeders into specific industries/companies. The school doesn't necessarily have to be "highly prestigious", but typically they will have either a local connection or national name recognition. The top-tier state schools tend to be very good in Science, Engineering, and Business (ie. Michigan, UCLA, Berkley, UVA, Illinois, Penn State, UNC, Texas, etc). If you go to one of those schools, and are toward the top of your class, you can be just as successful as someone who went to any elite private school. However, being an average student is probably not going to open a lot of doors for you. At the smaller state schools, you're going to be limited more to local job opportunities, which may be fine if you don't want to move out of state anyway. Major and GPA are just as important as the school itself.
 
Jul 19, 2014
2,390
48
Madison, WI
It's not the arrow --

There have been studies that show the elite schools tend to put out a lot of really successful students because those schools are really good in finding which HS seniors are most likely to do well in life.

However, students who are accepted by the top schools but go to a state school tend to do just as well.

There are exceptions. There are some fields where your degree matters a LOT, and those are often lucrative jobs. Many finance companies go after Ivy grads in the top half of their class. Top law firms prefer grads from top law schools. There are other examples.
 
Aug 26, 2011
1,285
0
Houston, Texas
It's not the arrow --

There have been studies that show the elite schools tend to put out a lot of really successful students because those schools are really good in finding which HS seniors are most likely to do well in life.

However, students who are accepted by the top schools but go to a state school tend to do just as well.

There are exceptions. There are some fields where your degree matters a LOT, and those are often lucrative jobs. Many finance companies go after Ivy grads in the top half of their class. Top law firms prefer grads from top law schools. There are other examples.

How do you find out which fields are selective by the quality of degrees (school)? DD wants pre-medical and is looking at D2 and NAIA. She is concerned that the quality of the degrees at those schools won't be as good as D3 or D1 schools. How do you research this? I have looked but the results are convoluted.
 
Jul 19, 2014
2,390
48
Madison, WI
How do you find out which fields are selective by the quality of degrees (school)? DD wants pre-medical and is looking at D2 and NAIA. She is concerned that the quality of the degrees at those schools won't be as good as D3 or D1 schools. How do you research this? I have looked but the results are convoluted.

Medical admissions are weird.

An MD who went to Johns Hopkins once told me nobody cares about the undergraduate school for an MD, but that is AFTER you have the MD.

Also, the MCATs are very important.

I would suggest talking to the schools, and finding out what sort of placement they have had with med schools, what sorts of GPAs and MCAT scores the students had. Be warned, they might be way too vague because of privacy concerns.

My DD 1 wants to go pre-med as well. It is scary, because I used to teach Organic Chemistry, both as a TA and later as a professor. That class kills off more pre-meds than any other class, meaning I got to be the guy who slaughtered the hopes and dreams of young adults who wanted to serve mankind through medicine. OTOH some of them I would never have wanted to practice medicine.

From that perspective, I realize that pre-meds entering college need some sort of backup. They don't have to have a backup plan yet, but they need to be a school where they can find good classes to take if they do wash out.

And the worst part is, as a parent I am not sure if I can really talk to my DD 1 about possible backups, because I want her to aim for the stars, and if she fails, maybe she will land on the moon.
 

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