Can a coach be called for Obstruction?

[cmustangsfp]

Here is a scenario I thought of that maybe you umps can clarify.

Scenario:
Coach Fred is coach of team B (visitors) who are in the field. He is ahead 3-2, last inning due to time constraints unless tied, then ITB. One runner on 3B, 2 outs. Team A's best hitter up to bat. Batter A hits the ball and starts around the bases. Fred goes for the out at 1B but runner beats the throw and continues on to 2B, runner from 3B scores, score now is tied. Team B starts playing throw the ball after the runner (in other words throwing behind the runner) Runner A makes it ahead of the throw at 2B and starts for 3B. Fred knows that his team is probably going to chase her with the throws until she scores and then he loses. He figures Team A's weakest part of the lineup is up and the next batter will most likely get out and with the next inning being ITB he figures his batting will be better than the other teams so he just has to get to the next inning. While the runner is heading towards 3B and his team is ignoring his calls for the throw to go to home plate and not 3B, he starts yelling "SLIDE! SLIDE! GET DOWN!" The runner hears him and complies, thinking it is coming from their coach, not the opposing side. The throw makes it to 3B and the girl is safe. Play is stopped by returning ball to P.

So basically if the defensive coach tries to give orders to the offensive players and is successful, could they be called for obstruction for trying to confuse the runner?

Would the ruling differ at different age levels? I know as they get older they are supposed to be watching their base coach (right?) so if someone pulled this stunt in an 8U or 10U game would it be handled differently?

Interested in your thoughts on this situation.

 

[Comp]

There is such a thing as verbal obstruction, however, there are case plays which indicate a player should recognize thier own coaches voice and not react to instructions from someone other than their coach.

 

[Greenmonsters]

There is such a thing as verbal obstruction, however, there are case plays which indicate a player should recognize thier own coaches voice and not react to instructions from someone other than their coach.

For example?

 

[Comp]

2 examples taken from the USSSA case book.

SITUATION A: R1 attempts to steal second. (a) F5 yells “get back get back”. R1 starts back to first where
she is tagged out. . (b) F5, seeing F2 going to the outfield, yells “slide”. R1 slides late into 2B. (c) F5 yells
to F3 “you have the bag”.
RULING: In (a) and (b), this is verbal obstruction and the umpire should call “obstruction” and signal a
delayed dead ball. The umpire will award R1 the base or bases she would have reached in the umpire’s
judgment had there been no obstruction. In (c), this is normal defensive communications. (3-43, 8-13, 8-
15-B-4, 10-5, 11-2-A)
SITUATION B: R1 attempts to steal second. F2, upon receiving the pitch, throws a pop-up to F6. F5 yells
“get back get back”. R1 thinks B2 has hit a pop-up and starts back to first where she is tagged out.
RULING: This is verbal obstruction on F5. The umpire should call “obstruction” and signal a delayed dead
ball. The umpire will call time when R1 is tagged out and award her the base or bases she would have
reached in the umpire’s judgment had there been no obstruction. (3-4; 8-13, 8-15-B-4, 10-5)
In addition, F2 is guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct and is ejected (11-2-R)
FAKE

 

[Greenmonsters]

2 examples taken from the USSSA case book.

SITUATION A: R1 attempts to steal second. (a) F5 yells “get back get back”. R1 starts back to first where
she is tagged out. . (b) F5, seeing F2 going to the outfield, yells “slide”. R1 slides late into 2B. (c) F5 yells
to F3 “you have the bag”.
RULING: In (a) and (b), this is verbal obstruction and the umpire should call “obstruction” and signal a
delayed dead ball. The umpire will award R1 the base or bases she would have reached in the umpire’s
judgment had there been no obstruction. In (c), this is normal defensive communications. (3-43, 8-13, 8-
15-B-4, 10-5, 11-2-A)
SITUATION B: R1 attempts to steal second. F2, upon receiving the pitch, throws a pop-up to F6. F5 yells
“get back get back”. R1 thinks B2 has hit a pop-up and starts back to first where she is tagged out.
RULING: This is verbal obstruction on F5. The umpire should call “obstruction” and signal a delayed dead
ball. The umpire will call time when R1 is tagged out and award her the base or bases she would have
reached in the umpire’s judgment had there been no obstruction. (3-4; 8-13, 8-15-B-4, 10-5)
In addition, F2 is guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct and is ejected (11-2-R)
FAKE

Thanks Comp

Why isn't F5 tossed too? And why isn't F5 tossed for UC in the other examples?
Is USSSA the only org w/ verbal obstruction?

 

[Comp]

No, every rule set has verbal obstruction. You asked for examples and the USSSA case book was the quickest thing I had access to with official rulings on verbal obstruction.

Dont know why F5 isnt considered the same as F2 in the case plays, but as an umpire you always have your judgement of what you consider to be unsportsmanlike and make an ejection on the play.

 

[BadMonkeys]

mustang- did this actually happen or was this just theoretical?

 

[TimothyJ]

Dont know why F5 isnt considered the same as F2 in the case plays, but as an umpire you always have your judgement of what you consider to be unsportsmanlike and make an ejection on the play.

Maybe because F2 is taking an unsportsmanlike action (throwing the ball in the air), as opposed to F5 who is merely causing the verbal obstruction ( which has already been penalized with the base award)?

Was kinda thinking (hoping) that UC could be called on the coach in the OP, but the cases above seem to say no to that.

 

[cmustangsfp]

mustang- did this actually happen or was this just theoretical?

Just theoretical. Sometimes my mind tries to think of different situations and how I would handle it if it pops up. When thinking about teaching my girls to round 1B and head for 2B on a late throw to first (this is for my younger team). I was thinking about then continuing to do the same if the throw was late to 2B. Then i try to think about how I would defend it if the tables were turned (I would get the throw to go home or have the girl with the ball run the ball towards home). Then the thought came to me (since I have faced some douchebag coaches (DB - maybe I should change the abreviation so it would not be confused with daddyball coaches but some of them can be douches too, so.....) , it's a shame too that they exist in the 8U realm) what would they (DB coaches) do to try and stop me? If they got my runner to stop (according to how games are played in this age group around here) then the play would be called dead. So if the other coach could do anything to get my runner to stop, they could be successful. That is when this scenario popped into my head. I would never attempt anything like this, but I have a cynical mind and try to think of how DB coaches work and how to stop them. I guess it comes from my cyber security work and trying to think like a hacker in order to make them less successful. If I can stay one step ahead of a DB coach, then I can be more successful.

 

[Umpire]

ASA states in their case book that there CANNOT be verbal obstruction. However, there can be verbal interference.