Batting out of order

[DanDare]

Team A turns in a lineup that is different than what they have written in their own book. Basically, the #5 and #6 batters are swapped. The first time through the lineup, these batters bat out of order with no appeal. The second time through, the #6 batter strikes out and the #5 batter hits a double and 2 runs score. Team B appeals that the #5 batter is out of order.

What's the call?

The umpire eventually ruled the #5 batter out and the runs do not score.

 

[Comp]

I posted and immediately realized I hadnt thought through it all. Doesnt matter what they may have written in the score book, the lineup card they turn into the umpire is the official lineup. Since nothing was appealed the first time through the lineup there is no ruling to make. However, when #6 batted out of order, and then a pitch was thrown to #5 this legitimized #6's at bat and essentially skipped over the #5 batter. #7 should have actually been at bat at that point instead of #5. When batting out of order is appealed after the completion of the at bat, the batter who should have batted is the one out and any runners who may have advanced on a hit by the out of order batter are returned to the base they occupied at the time of the at bat. In this case when #5 hit, it should have been #7 at bat, #7 should have been declared out, all runners returned to base and now #8 would be the correct batter.

 

[DanDare]

So, since Team A got through the lineup once without appeal there can be no appeal by Team B?

 

[BretMan]

A valid BOO appeal can be made:

1) While the improper batter is at the plate, and before the at-bat is completed. In that case, there is no penalty. Just put the proper batter at the plate and they assume whatever ball/strike count the improper batter had.

2) After the improper batter has completed their at-bat, but before the next pitch is thrown. When this happens the BOO penalty is applied.

3) If at the end of an inning, before all infielders have left fair territory.

4) If at the end of the game, before the umpires leave the field.

For numbers 2 through 4, if the appeal is made after those points it is not a valid appeal and there is no penalty.

 

[marriard]

So, since Team A got through the lineup once without appeal there can be no appeal by Team B?

I have read the situation differently to Comp which may be why my answer on the call is different... Comp has a much better understanding of the rules in detail than I have.

Ok.. first time through the #5 & #6 batters are out of order (#6 bats for #5, #5 bats for #6, #7 bats in her proper spot). No valid appeal was made so these at bats stand no matter what.

Second time through... the #6 bats as #5 and strikes out. The #5 comes up and bats in the #6 spot (so no appeal of previous at bat which stands as a K). The #5 hits a double, and before the #7 batter (who is still in the right spot) takes a pitch the appeal is made. Now the #5 batter is out (in the #6 spot), runners are returned to where ever they were before the her at bat, and the #7 batter starts her at bat.

Batting through the line up without an appeal for out of order only legitimizes the at-bats - it doesn't legitimize being out of order the second time through so the appeal is still valid. Or so I believe.

 

[Comp]

Once the pitch was thrown to the next batter after #6 batted out of order, it made the at bat legal. The next batter should have been #7 not #5. The batter who should have batted is the one called out, not the incorrect batter so in this case it would be #7 who is out and now #8 is the batter.

If the appeal had been made prior to the pitch being thrown, then yes, #5 would have been the correct batter and would have been the one called out. #6 at bat would have been negated, #5 is out and #6 comes back to bat again.

 

[DanDare]

If the appeal had been made prior to the pitch being thrown, then yes, #5 would have been the correct batter and would have been the one called out. #6 at bat would have been negated, #5 is out and #6 comes back to bat again.

The strikeout to #6 was the 2nd out of the inning. The appeal on #5 was the third out. Does #5 lead off the next inning?

So basically, we have 2 batters out of order and the appeal can be made on either batter whenever it benefits the defensive team?

 

[honus14]

Edit: I'm leaving this here so that the later posts make sense, but it's so mangled that fixing it will probably just make it worse. Pay no attention to this; read Ajaywill's and Comp's subsequent posts.

Until there's an appeal, nothing happens, so the defense can appeal or not, as it wishes. Often the defense will let it go if there's an out, unless they want to get a different batter up.

All you have to remember is three things:

1) You are never out for batting out of order. You are out for failing to bat in the right order.
2) The next batter is the one whose name follows the last correct batter on the official lineup card.
3) Any pitch to a batter makes her the correct batter.

End of the inning has nothing to do with it.

So, again: 6 bats. Any pitch to 6 makes her the correct batter. Who's up next? See my point #2 above: 7 is the correct batter when 6 is done.

5 comes up instead, and there's an appeal before the pitch. Who's out? See point #1: 7 is out for not batting in order.

Who's the next batter? See point #2: 8 is due up. Doesn't matter if it's the same inning or the next inning.

 

[Comp]

The strikeout to #6 was the 2nd out of the inning. The appeal on #5 was the third out. Does #5 lead off the next inning?

So basically, we have 2 batters out of order and the appeal can be made on either batter whenever it benefits the defensive team?

No, I said if the appeal had been made prior to a pitch being thrown. Yes, 2 batters batted out of order, but #6 completed the at bat and then a pitch was thrown to #5. This made #6's at bat legal and essentially reset the batting order skipping over #5. #7 should have been at bat but instead #5 came to bat and hit a double and the batting out of order was appealed. #7 should have been at bat and is the batter who is called out and any advancement of runners by #5 hitting the ball is negated and the runners would be returned to the base they occupied at the time of the hit. But, being as this ended up being the 3rd out the inning is over. #8 is now the batter who leads off the next inning.

And no the defense cannot just appeal the batting out of order at any time. As Bretman indicated earlier the defense can appeal it while the incorrect batter is at bat but at that time there is no penalty, the correct batter simply comes to bat and assumes the count. If the defense waits until the incorrect batter completes the at bat, but before a pitch is thrown to the next batter, the batter who should have batted would be called out. If a pitch is thrown prior to the attempted appeal, the incorrect batters time at bat is legal and no appeal would be honored by the umpire

 

[Comp]

So, again: 6 bats. Any pitch to 6 makes her the correct batter. Who's up next? See my point #2 above: 7 is the correct batter when 6 is done.

To clarify, while #6 is at bat she is not the correct batter and could be appealed as being out of order either during the at bat or prior to a pitch to the next batter. #6's at bat is not made legal until a pitch is thrown to the next batter.