Are Pitching Machines making bad hitters?

[riseball]

Here's an observation. How many hitting instructors do you see using a pitching machine? I can't remember the last time, if ever, when I saw one. You'll be doing your DD a favor if you do front toss from behind a net.

Every professional instructor that I have ever seen uses a machine. The facility where I do pitching lesson has two instructors, both who use a machine along with other tools. In the summer they are booked from 10am to 8pm most every day. Have you heard of an MLB, NPF, or NCAA team that does not use one? Of course not.

 

[djcarter1966]

Somethings I did with a pitching machine and tips.

1. It does not mean you can now shove a ball in the machine every 5 seconds so girls can swing at 10 pitches a minute..use regular game intervals (10 seconds at least) so they can set up for the next pitch
2. I usually just present the ball and place it in the machine doing some kind of pitching motion does not really work
3. I did take the legs off and tried to get it to about 2 feet off the ground instead of 4 feet in my opinion you want to train girl eyes to pick up the ball where its going to actually be coming from
4. I did however not really like to overuse it so I learned to pitch so I could pitch at least one round through the lineup maybe 10 to 15 live pitches each. Using your pitcher for BP I found counter productive unless it is in game simulation environment where you actually let them try and strike girls out, never use your pitcher to pitch meatballs in BP IMO.

 

[CoogansBluff]

One reason that hitting is so hard is that it can’t be replicated easily in practice. Pitchers have it much easier. What they do in practice is fairly similar to the real thing, and then in tournaments, they might get 75 at-bats to improve their craft, while the poor hitter might get only 12.

That’s very significant, IMO. Think of all the other sports how relatively easy it is to practice the skill that is your meal ticket. It’s easy to simulate real-game conditions in almost every other sport, but very unwieldy to do in a softball practice while still being efficient, and very difficult to do on your own. If there were an efficient way for hitters to get live hitting on a regular basis, I think it would change game significantly.

What does that have to do with pitching machines?

They are poor substitutes for the real thing. But, so are front toss and tee. They all have serious shortcomings, but they are the best we have. All are useful. But you have to accept their limitations and get the most out of them you can.

I have a 3-wheel Junior Hack Attack. It’s better than the 2-wheelers, but it’s hard to use the windmill windup on it, as I think it was Westwind who pointed out.

Two suggestions for that – (1) As someone noted, consider having the hitter stand in launch position, similar to TM’s command drill, or (2) let the batter initiate when you release the ball. When I see the hitter begin to load (‘’gather’’ might be the better word), I let it go. She’s in control. You generally want a hitter to begin her forward move as the pitcher releases the ball. So if the pitcher knows when the ball is coming out of the chute (just as she should know when a ball is coming out of the pitcher's hand), that allows her to artificially synch up her move out as the ball is coming out. Takes a few balls to get in synch, but once they get it, it works pretty well.

One benefit I've seen from pitching machine - The speed of the ball causes my DD to do the bad things she tends to do in games (ie, flatten barrel too soon, step out on her stride). She doesn't do those things in front toss or tee. So short of a live pitcher, the ball machine does allow her to work on those things.

Thanks for allowing me to ramble.

 

[Westwind]

I agree that you do your players a favor by front tossing from behind a screen or better yet learn to pitch. It doesn't have to be only live arm vs. machine though, I want both. I front toss/pitch to the best of my ability and pay a former men's fastpitch guy to pitch to my daughters but I also want them to see machine balls. I notice an increase in power and ball squaring when we are using a machine regularly.

Coogansbluff, you have to work on your rambling if you ever want to catch up with me, lol!

 

[Rocketech1]

The two biggest problems with wheeled pitching machines are a) the dimpled ball has backspin everytime, so unless you are practicing hitting riseballs when you use the machine, it's not going to be too helpful for recognizing and adjusting your swing to other pitches; b) all the pitches are in the same location, same speed, with little movement on the ball (e.g. no drop ball, curveball, change-up, etc.)

Facing lots of live pitching is best followed by front toss, with pitches to all areas in and out of the strike zone. There is something to be said about a hitter being able to see the ball being realeased out of the hand that is an important aspect of recognizing the spin of the ball and timing for the pitch.

 

[ez_softball]

We have two machines, a single wheel and a double wheel. I use both machines but I also do front toss right alongside the machines. IMHO the machines help batters especially when it pertains to real life game speeds. I also, use these machines a ton for outfield drills and for bunting practice.
IME there is a lot of bogus info out there on why machines are counterproductive. I think the mindset of those doubters is that once you get a machine that's all you use. My opinion is that they're just another weapon in you arsenal. Just because I have a machine doesn't mean I'm not going to stop doing front toss, soft toss, tee work, etc. when I coach... I'm going to just supplement what I already do with a machine.

 

[ez_softball]

The two biggest problems with wheeled pitching machines are a) the dimpled ball has backspin everytime, so unless you are practicing hitting riseballs when you use the machine, it's not going to be too helpful for recognizing and adjusting your swing to other pitches; b) all the pitches are in the same location, same speed, with little movement on the ball (e.g. no drop ball, curveball, change-up, etc.)

In response to (a): On a single wheel machine you are correct that they all have backspin. With that being said the dimpled ball doesn't really end up with rise-ball movement. I agree that it also doesn't look like a fastball either.

In response to (b): Again, for a single wheel machine all pitches are not going to the same location and they will not have the same speed. This is a misconception that you have control over every variable and isn't a reality in the real world. The real world experience means that different ball are going to have different wear on them causing slightly different flight, my feed into the machine isn't going to be the same every time and me being human causes different the ball to do different things, the machine wheel is not always perfectly round and may have different wear on it, lastly the motor itself may not be at the same rpm as the last pitch. The last definitely has an impact on ball flight if the machine hasn't recovered to full RPM. Even then it's a range of RPMs for the VS motor and the motor may or may not have power to it when the ball hits the wheel/pressure plate.
All these things have an impact on the ball flight. Oh and I'm known to also adjust the variable speed on the machine as well as rotate the direction on the fly as we're doing BP. I've also, used different brand/style softballs/baseballs out of the same bucket that can alter the flight path pitch to pitch.

 

[Westwind]

The two biggest problems with wheeled pitching machines are a) the dimpled ball has backspin everytime, so unless you are practicing hitting riseballs when you use the machine, it's not going to be too helpful for recognizing and adjusting your swing to other pitches; b) all the pitches are in the same location, same speed, with little movement on the ball (e.g. no drop ball, curveball, change-up, etc.)

Disagree for a couple reasons. Take a look at the three wheel machines. Mine is set up right now for 12-6 spin. I can make the ball break left or right on any pitch without the hitter knowing it. I can change one wheel setting and give it three cranks up or down and go from a backspin riseball at the top of the zone to a 12-6 spin at the knees. I also was able to create a way tho move the pitch location in and out and can alternate corners easily. Heck even with a Jugs turn it on and off to vary pitch speed and height.

All that being said, I still think for most people belt high flat fastballs are a really productive use of any machine and that is how I use mine the most. And that is despite the fact that neither of my kids see that pitch in a game very often.

 

[CoachJD]

All those who argue that machines are bad because it's the same pitch every time, can I please have your machine?

In all seriousness, the machine I use can be frustrating with how frequently I have to adjust for location, but it's also great because the girls know they can't just expect a belt-high fastball every time. They're not just learning timing, but they're also learning to recognize pitch location (we do not play at a level where they have to worry about any secondary pitches except the occasional change-up).

 

[Ksphenom]

We use the machine outside mostly.
While no substitute for live we like to see the girls swing and quickly diagnose slight flaws that seem to creep up.
Upper and bottom half separation, girls that can only hit the high fastball because they can't or don't keep the head down on the ball.
Kids loading to slow and jacking up mechanics trying to keep up with the 65 mph heater. Looping swings reaching for an outside pitch that they can't keep up with.
I do like them for bunting and slapping drills.
I really like to see it used for outfield route running and infield use. Short quality batting sessions. Bottom line practicing bad technique doesn't help anybody but the other team.