Appealable calls

[SESwildfire]

This past weekend in BRKT play we drew a set of umps that I have had a history with on judgment calls. Leadoff batter gets on and I call a bunt/steal play. Batter lays a beautiful bunt and takes off down the line with the field ump callin her safe at 1B. Home plate umps calls her out saying the bunt hit her wrist after she exited the box. She is a right handed batter and the bunt was directly in line with her body. This would be difficult if not impossible to call from the HP umps field of view as the batter had her back to the ump. I called time and said this word for word "Sir I would like to appeal the last play as I felt the field ump might have had a better view of the play". His reply was "I made my call and it stands its not appealable"... i just shook my head and returned to my box. The field ump told my assistant coach there is no use appealing no way I could see that way out here.

The rest of the game in my opinion was one sided in calls from that point forward. We lost every single close call play. At the end of the game he then had words with one of my fans that I came to discover was not talking to him, about him or anything even directed at him. He heard the mom say something to her mother (my players grand parent). I asked what was said and who in the stands said something. He refused to reply.

Aside from our history and this game can someone please tell me where in the USSSA books that I can find what plays are appealable to avoid this going forward?

 

[quincy]

Judgement call, I do not think you can appeal or protest, you are just stuck.

 

[marriard]

Home plate umps calls her out saying the bunt hit her wrist after she exited the box. .... His reply was "I made my call and it stands its not appealable"... The field ump told my assistant coach there is no use appealing no way I could see that way out here.

The umpire is correct - if they saw it hit her (whether it happened or not) and made the call, there is nothing to go to the other umpire about. The other umpire can't unsee something I saw. The same thing goes for tags - I either saw it or I didn't. I may go for help if I didn't see it hit her or I didn't see a possible tag and I want additional info.

Field ump is wrong for saying anything to your AC. That is a different topic.

Aside from our history and this game can someone please tell me where in the USSSA books that I can find what plays are appealable to avoid this going forward?

Appeals are the wrong word for what you are looking for.

But here goes:
Rule 9 of the USSSA rule book covers appeals

http://usssa.com/docs/2020/FPRB_Online_revised_011620.pdf

An appeal is a play or rule violation on which the Umpire does not make a ruling until requested by a coach or player
Sec 1. Types of appeals:
A.Missing a base, either advancing or returning (live or dead-ball appeal).
B.Leaving a base on a caught fly ball before the ball is first touched (live or dead-ball appeal).
C.Batting out of order (dead-ball appeal only).
D.Attempting to advance to second base after making the turn at first base overrunning first base (live-ball appeal only).

That is it.

What you are looking for is situations where an umpire can consider going to another official for additional information. That is when you think they were blocked, or they couldn't see the foot off the bag, etc, etc. However, they are not required to get assistance if they feel they have the call or it is something that they absolutely saw. So - if I absolutely see the ball hit someone or I see a tag or I have all the elements of the play and the coach is not bringing to me anything that I might of missed or is just fishing, I will not seek additional information.

 

[jackfrost]

there is a difference between asking for help on a judgment call and making a proper appeal. There are maybe 5 types of plays where the umpire will not make a call, even if aware of the problem, until a coach "appeals" the situation. For example, if you thing a player missed a base, left too soon on a caught fly ball or batted out fo order, the coach or player has to notify the umpire (appeal to the umpire) for the umpire to make the call. In your case the umpire made a judgement that the ball hit your runner. First he shouldn't make the call unless he is sure it hit your runner. Second, there is no need for the ump to ask for help if he is sure it hit your runner. So in this case I wouldn't expect the umpire to ask for help. If it were the opposite, say you thought it hit the runner and he didn't call it, you would call time and go talk to him and say, Mr. umpire, from my angle it looked like the ball hit the batter when she was getting out of the box, could you check with your partner and see if he had a better angle. That would be the way to "ask for help" [not appeal] a judgement call.

Ump shouldn't call it unless he saw it. If he saw it and called it, no need to get help. If he missed something, that's when you ask him/her if they would get help from their partner.

 

[radness]

If the blue saw it hit wrist are they supposed to indicate at the moment?

Seems base ump calling her safe would indicate he did not see the ball hit her wrist.

This is two sets of eyes and only one set is right.

 

[marriard]

If the blue saw it hit wrist are they supposed to indicate at the moment?

Seems base ump calling her safe would indicate he did not see the ball hit her wrist.

This is two sets of eyes and only one set is right.

Yes, the ball is dead immediately.

"Dead ball, batter out"

 

[radness]

Yes, the ball is dead immediately.

"Dead ball, batter out"

There it is. Thnx Marriard
Best heard from a person who knows the rules!

 

[mmeece]

This past weekend in BRKT play we drew a set of umps that I have had a history with on judgment calls. Leadoff batter gets on and I call a bunt/steal play. Batter lays a beautiful bunt and takes off down the line with the field ump callin her safe at 1B. Home plate umps calls her out saying the bunt hit her wrist after she exited the box. She is a right handed batter and the bunt was directly in line with her body. This would be difficult if not impossible to call from the HP umps field of view as the batter had her back to the ump. I called time and said this word for word "Sir I would like to appeal the last play as I felt the field ump might have had a better view of the play". His reply was "I made my call and it stands its not appealable"... i just shook my head and returned to my box. The field ump told my assistant coach there is no use appealing no way I could see that way out here.

The rest of the game in my opinion was one sided in calls from that point forward. We lost every single close call play. At the end of the game he then had words with one of my fans that I came to discover was not talking to him, about him or anything even directed at him. He heard the mom say something to her mother (my players grand parent). I asked what was said and who in the stands said something. He refused to reply.

Aside from our history and this game can someone please tell me where in the USSSA books that I can find what plays are appealable to avoid this going forward?

Part of the problem may be in your approach and the exact language you are using. As others have said, this is not an "appeal". You are really just asking them to "get help". What you should generally ask in that situation is something like " From my angle it looked like the ball missed her arm. Is it possible you could see if the field umpire had a different view?" It's not a play that can be appealed, but they can always ask for help IF they wish. However, don't go out and ask for them to get help on most judgement plays. There simply isn't a reason to talk to an umpire about a close play at first or a tag at home unless you feel like it's possible a foot came off the bag, the ball was dropped, etc. DON'T ask them to see if the other umpire has better judgement just because you didn't agree with the outcome. There simply isn't anything to gain by discussing a close call just because you thought they were wrong.

 

[radness]

This past weekend in BRKT play we drew a set of umps that I have had a history with on judgment calls. Leadoff batter gets on and I call a bunt/steal play. Batter lays a beautiful bunt and takes off down the line with the field ump callin her safe at 1B. Home plate umps calls her out saying the bunt hit her wrist after she exited the box. She is a right handed batter and the bunt was directly in line with her body. This would be difficult if not impossible to call from the HP umps field of view as the batter had her back to the ump. I called time and said this word for word "Sir I would like to appeal the last play as I felt the field ump might have had a better view of the play". His reply was "I made my call and it stands its not appealable"... i just shook my head and returned to my box. The field ump told my assistant coach there is no use appealing no way I could see that way out here.

The rest of the game in my opinion was one sided in calls from that point forward. We lost every single close call play. At the end of the game he then had words with one of my fans that I came to discover was not talking to him, about him or anything even directed at him. He heard the mom say something to her mother (my players grand parent). I asked what was said and who in the stands said something. He refused to reply.

Aside from our history and this game can someone please tell me where in the USSSA books that I can find what plays are appealable to avoid this going forward?

Lets ask the op.
Did the home ump indicate dead ball imediatly?

That would have been befor the play at first.

( the base ump was still calling a play at 1st soooo?)

 

[SESwildfire]

Lets ask the op.
Did the home ump indicate dead ball imediatly?

That would have been befor the play at first.

( the base ump was still calling a play at 1st soooo?)

He indicated it before she made it to 1B but after the throw.

Two things stuck out in my head on this play. One was the line of sight to the ball was blocked , two the ball never changed directions in any way off the bat. I have several parents that video on the team, most video their own DD batting but I am going to see if anyone has video of it to show you.

The call is really beside the point of my post though, more wanted what Marriard posted as reference to save my breathe at a later time.