Aggressive tag

[absdad]

Not sure whether this falls into a rule violation per se... but want to get some blue and coach opinions. My dd's team played today agains an org team that for lack of a better way of saying it, has a "reputation". Anyhow, dd's team batting, runner on 2nd, my dd on third. Batter knocks a weak hit to pitcher, who throws back to catcher. My dd is flying down the line, and just getting ready to slide. The catcher has positioned herself straddling the baseline, about 4' up from the plate. She made a pretty stong hard push with ther glove right at my dd's facemask, knocking her flat on her kiester. Pretty hard knock to the head, but she was alright. The catcher then turned to look for another runner. I'm not sure if that's a violation of any rules or not, but was curious if "the tag" was. To me, she was making a play and had the right to be there, yes? Certainly seems to me to be a bit aggressive though. Anyhow, I guess my question is... what do you tell your players to do, if they are the runner on third and see the catcher setup that way? Plow into them, hit the glove with their arms trying to knock the ball loose, try to avoid without going to far off the line?

 

[Lozza]

There are few times when a tag to the head is accidental and the umpire can tell when that is (swinging the glove around to the runner, runner sliding and gets hit in the head) But a girl standing up and the catcher standing in position? She should have been ejected.

 

[livingontheroad]

Knocking a players head back sharply can result in very bad things, just as in football. I wont elaborate, but it does happen all the time. I have seen a couple of very serious injuries that resulted from that exact thing. The helmet may not stay on as well with a hit to the chin or facemask, and it can result in the back of head hitting the ground hard. Problem is on a foot-first slide, that is the highest part and easiest to tag.

She has the right to be there if she has the ball. She can have obstruction called too in some situations.

 

[Comp]

I would still have to see it for myself, but, from your description I would have seriously considered ejecting the catcher for malicious contact. There should have been no reason for her to go to the head or extend her arms with a forceful action if she was just standing there waiting to make the tag. As Lozza said, there are times hard tags happen and it is just part of the game, but it is usually pretty clear which ones are just part of the game and when it crosses the line.

 

[3DD'sDAD]

I have to agree with COMP and others. Yesterday my 15yo took a serious hard knock at home but it was a result of her and the ball arriving at the same time with a perfect throw. Tag applied to the underside of her mask and head hits the ground. All this while sliding (one foot style) at home. No malicious intent at all, but a slight concussion a result. These things happen in ball, but to stand and wait and apply a "strong tag" to the head is not called for. Should have been ejected in my opinion.

 

[absdad]

Yeah, the catcher clearly had the ball, and had the right to be there IMO. Not an ideal setup for a catcher, but thats another topic. The tag could have been made pretty much anywhere, as my daughter was still mostly standing at the time. I was mostly concerned with the tag to the facemask, and the seemingly aggressive way it was applied.

So how what would you instruct your players to do in that situation, if they're the runner and the catcher has, is ready to have, possession of the ball and it standing on the baseline?

 

[3DD'sDAD]

Abs:

I would tell my girls to be agressive if the catcher had the ball, especially if the opposing team is known to be aggressive. I don't mean a football tackle, but certainly knowing where the ball is and trying to knock the ball loose without being too obvious. If the catcher does not have the ball yet and is on the line, could be considered obstruction, but I would expect a wide path to the plate with a hook slide using the left hand to touch the plate, or the runner simply "take out" the catcher, but that risks interference depending on where the ball is. Without the ball, the catcher cannot block the path to the plate.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

It is my opinion that the runner from third should have stayed put. It was the runner's error.

As far as the hard tag, I would have come up swinging at that age - and most likely fractured my hand, etc. So , if your DD just turned and ran to her bench, kudos to her. IF the 2 girls are friends, it might have just been a joke gone bad.

Did anyone say anything after the game? Like asking the coach "Hey, did you see that smack to the head that your catcher put on my daughter?"

 

[jacketsfan]

I have seen both sides of this. I had a player knocked out cold, who left on a stretcher to the hospital, on a hard tag to the head. Helmet flew off, head hit the dirt hard, and she was out. Luckily, just a mild concussion, but it was very scary, to say the least. In this case, I really don't think it was intentional on anyone's part. Just a bam-bam play that happened.

My DD comes in cleats up in that situation, as she has also been tagged hard to the head like that, and was there when her friend got knocked out. After one such play (catcher blocking, she got killed coming in), she asked the blue immediately when she got up what her options were. He told her that you have two options - slide or go around. Lowering a shoulder as they do in baseball will get the runner ejected. I later confirmed that in the rule book.

Since then, she comes in cleats up if the catcher is blocking. She almost got in a fight with a catcher who was more than mad that she got cleats when she was going for my DD's head. But, the catcher is placing both players in jeopardy when they position themselves that way, and my DD is not likely to take the worst of it. This isn't something I taught her, she just does it after those 2 incidents above.

 

[Comp]

Coming in cleats up create the possibility of the runner getting tossed. Cleats above the knee can also be considered as malicious contact.