Advice on next pitch to learn

[CLM265]

Couldn't seem to get it to show but here is a link to a similar pitch to the outside. Sorry for the shake.

VU8Jr0.gif (720x404)

 

[Perfect Circle]

Couldn't seem to get it to show but here is a link to a similar pitch to the outside. Sorry for the shake.

VU8Jr0.gif (720x404)

 

[Perfect Circle]

Not wanting to strain @ nats... But to me, a backdoor...(curve or Screw) breaks outside in, to the center of plate..and the back door is the point of the plate...

Here is DD back in the day, (learning) and making a crook out of the catcher... LOL Catcher should be able to just stab for the call..like the one I posted... left & right

The point of the green box is to show where it starts to brake...front line of chalked batters box. In 7th grade it was fun to throw... but it is actually breaking too much... She had to tighten her spin from there on...to get a "backdoor" The pitch did come across the plate, catching both corner's... but getting it called all the time was tuff... Now she just does the big breaks when the UMPs come out to the line to watch her 5 pitches warm ups...

 

[sluggers]

Back the original poster...

My guess is that your DD can't throw any of these pitches particularly well.

People always overlook control...people get mesmerized by speed or movement, and they overlook control. Control is much more important than movement or speed...because, without control, your DD will never see the mound.

Anyway...it is better to have one or two really good pitches than a bunch of crappy pitches.

Work on her control until she can paint the corners with her current batch of pitches...yes, it is boring and it is difficult, but that is why it is called "work".

When she can make her drop drop 90% of the time and she can put exactly where she wants it 95% of the time, then maybe learn another pitch.

 

[Perfect Circle]

DD#2 is moving up to 14U this year, she turns 13 soon. We are heading into the off season and its time to start thinking about what we want to work on. I love this time of year as we can try new things. We have been messing around with a 2 seam fastball some but her pitching instructor wasn't to excited about it.

She currently throws:

4 seam fastball with good IR it runs 51-53MPH with pretty good control.Good drop ball, not great but generates a ton of ground ball outs. Sometimes she can really feel it and those games are a ton of fun to watch.
Horseshoe/handshake change up with good control however it is only about 9-10 MPH slower most of the time she just can't seem to figure out how to get it 2-3 mph slower. She sells it very well and has a ton of success with it.
Working on a riseball, but it is currently used primarly as a waste/setup pitch.

When we asked her pitching coach about adding a new pitch in the off season she suggested a backdoor change up. We worked on it last night she picked it up very fast and it is 15-17 MPH slower than her fastball. She suggested we might want to think of her horseshoe change as an off speed pitch and the backdoor change up as her true change up. I would have never considered this but the idea of having an off speed and a much slower change up is interesting. Her horseshoe change doesn't normally fall off the table at the plate it only works because she sells, however the backdoor change up just falls off the table hits the back of the plate kind of a pitch. My question is, is it common to have two different change ups? I'm also wondering what is the best way to use them, would you ever throw them together, meaning throw the off speed pitch and then the change up next or vice versa. Any thoughts or advise on how to leverage them is much appreciated.

My concern is putting time into a pitch that might not be used that much. Her other suggestion was to pick up a curve, we have tried it but haven't had a ton of luck.

Again in light of what you started saying... your ready to go east/west. I'm guessing that @ that age and having a pitching coach, she's ready.

The 2Seam will be the fastest ROI... The backdoor will take much longer as explained above. 2Seam gives you movement... CorkScrewCurve then BM's Screw.... then backdoor them both... JMHO

Here's a real nice Curve. Massive Movement not needed like for a backdoor...

 

[WOODY123]

To the OP:

I'm not a big fan of the screwball and curve because I just don't think the vast majority of pitchers get enough movement on these pitches to be effective and when they do, it's east/west not north/south movement. The one thing that has always resonated with me is when Hillhouse says you only need 3 pitches: drop, riseball, and change-up (i.e. pitches that work vertically and on two planes). I think there is wisdom in this approach.

To your other point, I believe it's important to have three speeds: 1) the fastest pitch; 2) off-speed and 3) change-up. FWIW - 14YO DD has been working on putting a knuckle on her dropball and curveball to make it 5 - 7 mph slower than fastball which is low to mid 50's. Her modified flip change is around 40 (which is a little too slow in my opinion). I say "modified" because its not a pure backspin flip change, but instead she put some side spin on it so it moves down and away from a RHB.

With that said, your DD is still young enough to experiment with other pitches. Maybe she has an awesome curve ball in her that is waiting to get out and show itself? How would you/she know if she never tries to throw it?

Thanks Rocketech:

We have been following the same advice from Hillhouse since she started pitching and have been working diligently on those pitches, her drop and change are incredible effective but still have some room for improvement. It is that time of year when it is fun to try some new things and see what works and doesn't work. Her first pitching coach threw an off speed drop curve that I thought was awesome she was 10 at the time and wasn't ready for it then, but I think it is time to mix in an off speed pitch. I like the idea of the backspin change with some side spin on it you suggested. We will give it a try next week.

 

[WOODY123]

This is definitely true. The OP is about 14U though. I was wondering if having a really slow CU and a moderately slow CU might be useful. I have no idea, it was just a thought.

They have their first fall tournament at 14UA this weekend. The coach asked if he could work it in some and I she said why not. Mixed results so far, mainly just a control issue as she has thrown it all of maybe 30 pitches. They did make the Gold bracket in their first tournament she is pitching right know unfortunately i'm home preparing for my 10U teams first team practice this afternoon while watching it on game changer.

 

[WOODY123]

Please explain your definition of a backdoor change up...

Sorry, not sure whey her pitching coach calls it a backdoor change up, I will have to ask. It is a basic flip change.

 

[WOODY123]

Back the original poster...

My guess is that your DD can't throw any of these pitches particularly well.

People always overlook control...people get mesmerized by speed or movement, and they overlook control. Control is much more important than movement or speed...because, without control, your DD will never see the mound.

Anyway...it is better to have one or two really good pitches than a bunch of crappy pitches.

Work on her control until she can paint the corners with her current batch of pitches...yes, it is boring and it is difficult, but that is why it is called "work".

When she can make her drop drop 90% of the time and she can put exactly where she wants it 95% of the time, then maybe learn another pitch.

Sluggers thanks for the feedback. I have 3 DD's they all pitch, I sit on a bucket 5-7 days a week. I'm not a big poster, but follow this site daily and I consider myself a student of the game and love learning everything I can about pitching. I realize the importance of control and owning a pitch. For her age I would say she more than owns a change up and a drop ball. Last year we had to explain the importance of being able to throw a ball as she can easily reach 85% - 90% strike ratio. She certainly can't throw it to a spot 95% of the time, but then again their is not a 12 year old in our state that can. This is our off season and the time of the year that we both love. We are playing around with new pitches it is what makes it fun for the both of us. Her go to pitches will likely always be the change and drop but we are looking for some varations of these pitches to play with.

 

[sluggers]

What your DD ought to learn is how to throw a bullet spin pitch.

Here is a video of Lauren Haeger, one of the best pitchers around. Look at the spin on her "riseball" and her "screwball". Both are bullet spin pitches.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rZzSBbFyvRk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Her "riseball" and her screwball are the same pitch. Why are they effective?

In pitching, the key is relative movement of the pitches, not absolute movement of the pitches.

Suppose a pitcher threw only great drop balls. Would the pitcher be effective? No...the batters would adjust and hit the ball. If the pitcher threw only great riseballs, would the pitcher be effective? No...the batters would adjust. (Assuming that the batters are moderately skilled batters.)

The point is that it is the mix of pitches that make a pitcher effective.

If a kid throws a fastball with down spin (say 12RPS) , and she can throw a drop with more down spin (say 25RPS) than her fastball, she has two pitches on two different planes. That is, the ball will be coming at the plate at different angles relative to the ground.

The bullet spin pitch does not drop as much as either the fastball or the drop ball. If the kid can throw a bullet spin pitch, then bullet spin pitch will be on a third plane. Batters then have to be able to get the bat on three different planes rather than two.