A cue for hitters who are dropping their hands

[Ken Krause]

Dropping the hands is a fairly common problem among young hitters. I personally think some of that is due to the number of coaches telling their hitters to "throw your hands at the ball," and part of it is telling them to "swing level," which translates in their heads to "level to the ground." But mostly it's probably just a natural reaction to trying to hit a moving ball with a moving bat.

Tonight I was working with a girl who was doing just that. She was trying to hit a thigh-high pitch, but her hands were coming down so low that there wasn't much angle to her bat. I wanted her to make sure she was keeping her hands above the ball, but saying that just didn't seem to make sense to her. So I told her to keep her hands above her waist, and just lower the bat to get to the ball.

Bingo! That seemed to work. She went from hitting bouncing ground balls to driving line drives and pounding some deep fly balls. She continued to hit through the ball consistently.

I don't know if it will work for everybody, but it certainly worked tonight -- probably because it was specific and measurable. Saying keep your hands above the ball requires judgment. Saying keep your hands above your waist (or bellybutton) is a lot easier to understand and execute.

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[SBFAMILY]

Good post Ken. Get kids all the time that coaches have told them swing level or take hands to the ball. Here is another way we try to correct the dropping of the hands. Take a T. Put it as high as it will go and then set it up on a bucket. This will be slightly higher than the strke zone or a rise ball. Now have them hit balls off the T. If they drop the hands they will not be able to hit the ball. We tell them Elbow, then hands, then bat. Keeping the hands above the plane of the pitch is very important.

 

[FJRGerry]

I recently bought Mike Epstein's hitting 3 DVD set and learned hitting the low balls is a matter of bending the rear leg a bit more while raising the front-side elbow. My daughter and I are in the process of learning this method but it seems to make good sense. I've been practicing getting the bat to the contact position then experimenting with the above. The hands are definitely above the bat's barrel, and the front leg remains straight, but I can raise and lower my hands in unison and see the effect on where the bat would be making contact with the ball.

 

[Mark H]

Well since there's little to no weight on the back foot at contact it seems unlikely Mike is right. This is a good case for promoting my rule "Always compare everything anyone tells you to slow motion video of the best in the world". Mike is just completely and obviously wrong on this one. Analysis
I would add imo, but it's really too obvious for that. I don't blame you for not understanding that. I find it unforgivable someone who does this for a living doesn't know or teach any better.

 

[Mark H]

Photo 3 of 16, ULL vs. UNT

Photo 1 of 16, ULL vs. UNT

One pitch knee high, one pitch belly button high. What do you see as far as back leg differences?

You have to be careful about what "makes sense". They ALL make sense listening to them and yet they vehemently disagree with each other. Use video of elite hitters to help you sort out the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Mark H]

Good post Ken. Get kids all the time that coaches have told them swing level or take hands to the ball. Here is another way we try to correct the dropping of the hands. Take a T. Put it as high as it will go and then set it up on a bucket. This will be slightly higher than the strke zone or a rise ball. Now have them hit balls off the T. If they drop the hands they will not be able to hit the ball. .

Yeah, but make them hit the ball on a line shoulder high off a tee. Make sure you practice it first so you can really annoy them by doing it easily. Now slowly lower the tee adjusting for height with anterior tilt/think deadlift position. Be ready to go back up with the tee as soon as they start dropping the hands a little. First learned this "high tee drill" from Howard Hashida in the mid 90's. Englishbey doesn't really like this one because it breaks the "athletic position rule" and I take his point but I use it briefly to teach a "feel". He uses a couple of visual constraint drills to accomplish the same thing without standing the hitter up.

We tell them Elbow, then hands, then bat.

Yes! In the sense the lead arm and bat need to swing in the same plane, you bet.

Keeping the hands above the plane of the pitch is very important.

I would have said the lead arm/shoulder, elbow, hands and bat need to swing in one plane parallel to shoulder rotation. In the sense that you don't drop your hands to adjust for pitch height, I absolutely agree with your statement.

 

[Ken Krause]

In the sense that you don't drop your hands to adjust for pitch height, I absolutely agree with your statement.

Actually, if you look closely at the two clips of Gomez you posted above, she does drop her hands to get to the lower pitch. Contrary to what I said to start this discussion, her hands are actually below her waist in the first clip, and above her waist in the second. IMHO the first one is not that great a swing. The second one, with the hands held higher, looks better to my eye. But she hits the ball both times so it seems to work for her.

 

[Mark H]

Actually, if you look closely at the two clips of Gomez you posted above, she does drop her hands to get to the lower pitch. Contrary to what I said to start this discussion, her hands are actually below her waist in the first clip, and above her waist in the second. IMHO the first one is not that great a swing. The second one, with the hands held higher, looks better to my eye. But she hits the ball both times so it seems to work for her.

Perhaps slightly though I wouldn't want to decide without seeing a clip of the swing from behind the back stop or from the pitcher. I'd contend most of the adjustment was postural but in any case, I chose the clips to address FJR's understanding that "hitting the low balls is a matter of bending the rear leg a bit more while raising the front-side elbow". I'd reference Siggy's analysis page to talk about hand dropping.

 

[Hitter]

Yeah, but make them hit the ball on a line shoulder high off a tee. Make sure you practice it first so you can really annoy them by doing it easily. Now slowly lower the tee adjusting for height with anterior tilt/think deadlift position. Be ready to go back up with the tee as soon as they start dropping the hands a little. First learned this "high tee drill" from Howard Hashida in the mid 90's. Englishbey doesn't really like this one because it breaks the "athletic position rule" and I take his point but I use it briefly to teach a "feel". He uses a couple of visual constraint drills to accomplish the same thing without standing the hitter up.



Yes! In the sense the lead arm and bat need to swing in the same plane, you bet.



I would have said the lead arm/shoulder, elbow, hands and bat need to swing in one plane parallel to shoulder rotation. In the sense that you don't drop your hands to adjust for pitch height, I absolutely agree with your statement.

We teach ALL of kids how to throw before they ever pick up a bat since most do not throw correctly or even understand a weight shift.

I have never been wrong when I see a female with poor hitting technique or mechanics they never throw well and I did this with Marc at a clinic with a girl they selected for me to work with I had never met before.

Once we get far enough into the lessen we begin to explain top of the hands to the top of the shoulder however hands no higher than the ear hole on the helmet.

Front elbow down not up and back elbow away not all the way up or down ...just away!

Now so you see what I see...ask your student to raise their hands and what did you notice? They probably moved the elbows and hands as a unit together! Now put a finger in the lead elbow crease and ask them to just raise the hands ONLY and you will see the hands come towards them. They will begin to see HOW the hands adjust for the first time. Studies from Children's Hospital Atlanta and Children's Hospital have confirmed their neuro muscular skills are not the same as for boys for the most part and yes there are exceptions so do not beat that horse into the ground yet as w can not cookie cut each hitter. My experience is you can to a point and I have probably worked with about 3,000 kids over the last 20 years.

Now take a ball and hold it and ask the hitter how would YOU hit this pitch and take the bat to the ball and see what happens. Where is the lead arm elbow in relationship to their hands and where is the barrel of the bat in relationship to the elbow?

Now put the ball knee high and ask them to do the exact same thing again. You are trying to demonstrate where their hands are in relationship to any ball they hit and that the lead arm elbow will ALWAYS be above the hands and hands will be below the elbow however the bat head will be below the hands and that the angle of the bat adjusts to the plane of the pitch using the lead elbow and turning and tilting of the shoulders not the back leg! This is exactly why we teach the lead elbow making what we term a good first move. If it is too high it is harder to adjust down without dropping the hands. If it is down I can always adjust up without any difficulty as it is part of my swing DNA.

This is another reason we teach how to hit the low pitch first and work up and not down. We teach below the knee, knee, mid thigh, waist, belly button and then below the elbows. All pitches are taught up the middle first and then outside next as we feel anyone can pull the ball. We teach rotating as needed from the first lesson.

Part of this is using a drill where we have them hold a ball in their lead hand shoulder high and palm down and drop the ball and hit it using both hands. They learn quickly they must get the bat head down and the elbow up or they can not get the balls flight angle to go upward. Then we work them off soft toss first depending on ability otherwise we use a tee.

By working up they seem to understand better where they must be in their stance ALL the time and not guess where they should be as to elbow up/ down in anticipation of a rise or drop. That will come from experience and instincts in the future.

While teaching look for the student who does not rotate as needed and you will see the lead elbow moving so far forward and not turning the shoulders and actyally see the top hand baby and ring finger coming loose off the bat even doing it in slow motion because they feel tension in the top of the back shoulder and by letting go of the bat a little that reduces that tension. If they had turned more allowing the elbows to lead and the knob to lead the elbows to bat lag they would never had let go of the bat. When was the last time your daughter chopped a tree down? A good up stroke and then a good down stroke and you cut a big chunk/wedge of tree out using both hands?

This is exactly why we started using a 2 x 4 and a block of wood to teach girls about leverage. I as if I can lift them with one hand? I am 6' 2.5" inches and 314 pounds. And they say no way coach I weigh 150 pounds! I lay the block of wood down then then the 2 x 4 and have them stand on one end and with one hand up they go. Then I tell them it will take two hand to get me up and they are amazed they can do it. I point out their bat is a lever and how we grip it will depend on how much leverage we can apply. Then I show them how to use a hammer. Many have NEVER used a hammer before.

See it, feel it and fix it! Just because they see a video does not mean they understand what they thought they saw.

There was a movie titled Paradigm Paralysis and I was a manager at GE Aviation and it was a required course. They show you a man fanning through a deck of cards quickly and what did you see? I said the cards are not the correct color as to suite. The jacks where red not black etc. The card players of which am not did not see it as they were conditioned to see what they knew not actually what they saw. With our kids it is the same thing as people have drilled into their heads to squish the bug and throw the hands at the ball.

Ask a kid what Jesus Christ looks like and they say long flowing hair, blue eyes and a beard. I do not know of many Hebrews that look like that unless they are European. The Bible says he had the skin of bronze and his hair was like the wool of the lamb. Pictures and sculptures paint a different and picture and that is a paradigm! Video does not always explain how it feels and is very hard for some to explain exactly what they just saw happen.

Thanks Howard